note that the vertical axis (want fun-fems to fuck them) is NOT the same as “would stick their dicks into fun-fems if they had the chance.” all men will stick their dicks into any woman at any time, and it has nothing to do with trans-inclusion. perhaps i shouldve said “want fun-fems to ‘envelop’ them” instead? HA!
male womens-studies professors, HOWEVER MANY there may be (!) are off the charts, due to the sheer availability of fun-fems *and* the trans-ownership of the universities these days. i bet old liverlips HATES that theres nothing he can do about continuously being called out for this one, having admitted it publically and everything. with the fun-fems *and* the academy being bogged down in the disingenuous consent-analysis of PIV, i am sure he believed that admitting it, but giving his man-word that it was all “consensual” it would all just magically disappear, and he could get on with his life and his job, as a wolf in sheeps clothing, fox guarding the henhouse etc.
I’ve noticed the more that het feminists have internalized male supremacy, the more they tend to believe twanz are real women (or real men, depending).
among het feminists, yes. i believe so too. although fun-fem lesbians are drinking the kool aid on this one too, as well as all the other fun-fem sex-pozzie bullshit. they just dont *personally* engage in PIV…not because its dangerous, just because they *prefer* not to. what IS a fun-fem lesbian anyway? i mean really. they dont have any political objection to men, they just dont fuck them? hmm. perhaps this is where the transwomen can get by calling THEMSELVES lesbians, just because *they* dont fuck men, either?
other het women however are NOT buying this one, no matter how male-identified they are, or how much they have internalized male supremecy. right-wing women for example would NEVER fall for this, just like republican men dont. its weird. why does this only apply to het feminists i wonder?
why does this only apply to het feminists i wonder?
It’s only the libfem/funfem crowd, who aren’t feminists, they are “humanists”, but pretend they are feminists. I guess it sounds both cool and ‘politically aware’.
They could not bear to be meanies to any Nigels (hey, potential fuckbuddies).
It’s a conflict of interest to be het, and truly feminist. Most radfems end up separatists, it is a natural progression. The one-in-several-million good Nigels out there are too statistically insignificant to be bothered looking for.
“right-wing women for example would NEVER fall for this, just like republican men dont. its weird. why does this only apply to het feminists i wonder?”
It is weird! I think rather than having internalized male supremacy, feminists who support this crap believe they are living in a post feminist world, that they have achieved equality, that this isn’t a patriarchy, it’s a kyriarchy. They tend to believe that feminism is just one small issue in a long series of intersectionality and that men are entitled to be feminists on equal footing with women. (Equal footing means, men are bigger experts about women’s experiences and more qualified to be feminists then women are so they should be leaders within the movement.)
I have to respect right wing women because they won’t even dignify that crap with a response. They know where women stand and they don’t baffle themselves with BS about their status in the world. Right wing women simply accept, “We Are F-ed.” Liberal women want to dress their Nigels up in a teeshirt that says, “This is What a Feminist Looks Like,” and by proxy, I get to be a feminist too! And like a good girl, I will bow to the superiority of my trans sisters and feel the proper amount of shame for my cis privilege.
Among a certain demographic, apolitical/I’m-not-a-feminist lezzies would chart at about the red heart. They don’t think M2T’s are women (and they certainly don’t want to fuck them), they just want the super cool hawt girlz with sassy poli cred to like them.
HA! i thought about where different women might fall on this chart, but decided to only chart the men for now. so, male womens studies profs and apolitical anti-feminist lesbians fall on the same point ay? that sounds about right! too funny noan, thanks.
also, i dont buy that most men accept that MTFs are women either, rather, they are doing it to impress the cool sex-pozzie chicks for sexual gain. thats exactly whats represented by this graph i think. its not a coincidence!
When it comes down to it, I think very, very few people really accept, without qualification, that MTFs are women. Acceptance only goes so far – “trans are fine! But I dont want to sleep with them!” that kind of thing.
I believe FCM that you are 100% right in saying that liberal dudes only accept trans inasmuch as that puts them in the good graces of funfems. Why the funfems go for it is another story. I think many of them simply think that the more the merrier, the more people of any sort who identify as feminists, the better it is. Of course, bad allies are worse than no allies at all. Numbers mean shit if the movement is so diluted as to be unrecognisable.
I’m under the impression that it has to do with women’s socialization to be accommodating. To be sensitive and caring. To mother everyone. This was one of the little sparks of insight that led me to radical feminism. I noticed that it was always, ALWAYS, the feminists—the WOMEN—who were expected to rise above and be perfectly accommodating and never, ever, EVER give the hint that we might want to put our interests equal to or (gasp horror!) above the interests of any other marginalized group.
Here’s a perfect example. On LiveJournal there is this community called “vaginapagina.” It’s a community dedicated to information about female reproductive health. A few years ago, there was this big debate because the trans folks were getting their panties into a twist about how marginalized they were by women beginning their posts in greeting to the community with, “hey ladies!” All of a sudden it was like, “BUT SOME OF US ARE NOT LADIEZ! U CAN HAZ UTERUS WITHOUT BEING LADIEZ. YOU ARE OPPRESSING ME.” I held my ground about how absolutely asinine it would be for WOMEN not to address other WOMEN on a page about VAGINAS and the utter hypocrisy of how the mods came down on people for saying, “hi ladies” or “hi gals” but not “hi guys.” Cos, yeah, I’m not a guy. But apparently it was fine for people to say “hi guys” but totally oppressive to say “hi gals” on a PAGE ABOUT VAGINAS. And these women were all too eager to bend over backwards to accommodate them because that’s what we do. We accommodate men. We submit to them. We mother them. We let them fuck us. WE make room for them in our bodies, our lives, our spaces. That’s how we’re socialized, and if we don’t consciously say “fuck that” then we end up doing it, whether we realize it or not.
Why don’t the trans folks go after the gay men instead of the lesbians? Why don’t they go after disability rights activists? Why don’t they go after civil rights/racial rights activists? Oh yeah, because those aren’t the movements focused on WOMEN. Every time I see a funfem woman bending over backwards to provide evidence of appropriate shame for her “cis privilege” all I see is yet another woman apologizing to yet another man for daring to exist. I think that’s what’s going on.
male women’s studies professor category had me h0wling LOL — ship this over to old liver lips! Manconsenusal sex indeed is his middle name.
There are loads of non-feminist non-political lesbians out there unfortunately… just watch the L-Word.
No other civil rights movement that I know of bends over backwards to accomodate the oppressors of said group, except women! And even lesbians are getting bad at this by just letting the trans waltz into our groups now… all public lesbian space in Los Angeles has been ruined by MTFs BTW. ALL. OF. IT. We need a chart for that 😦
Right wing women are just honest about this, and I think that’s very true. Compare Gloria Steinem’s support of Bill Clinton over Monicq Lewinsky vs. Sarah Palin’s emergence on the right wing Christian woman’s scene. Who would you pick as the feminist if you were a right wing christian woman?
Love all the charts and hearts… really cheered me up today 🙂 yeah!
seriously though, i am *so* glad there are people around now who were around then, who know what this means. it was a moment in time that i will never forget (obvs) and i am glad that some of us are still around, talking about the “good old days” of pwning liverlips, or whatever, together. thats feminist history, baby! yeah!
for those who *werent* around for hugo pwn-fest 2010, it was an hi-larious and infuriating blogwar (if you can call it that…some dood picked a fight with the radfems and he lost bad HA!) started by a male womens studies professor named HUGO SCHWYZER who is a fun-fem darling and admits to fucking his female students “in the past.” completely grody. google “hugo schwyzer liverlips” to visit his blog. heh.
Yes to everything you said Selah. That is exactly it.
Feminist-Lite has now descended into parody, just check out the Feministing post on “Why I won’t be talking about abortion as a women’s issue anymore”. What the fuckity fuck??? Every group cracks a speshul snowflake mention except FABs who don’t want to play gender dressups.
hugo is much worse than a waste of space IMO. i have *heard* that he is getting major play in fun fem circles, as well as in the MSM. it gives me the shivers.
I wasn’t around for the liverlips party, so thanks so much for bringing me up to speed on the current state of paternalistic librul doods. Anyway, speaking of language and how it fixes women in a specific zone, here’s his eminence himself waxing, waxing about, well see for yourself:
“These smart and amazing young women…”
“…these bright and beautiful girls…”
“Teen girls are almost invariably fonts of great wisdom for their peers”
Hugo is also quoted in this article, which is AWESOME until the last 2 paragraphs. He’s SO legit. His exploitation of female sexuality makes me want to castrate. Yes, I did say that. He is a predator, uncontrolled.
As Hugo Schwyzer lays out in a recent article for online magazine Jezebel:
Harassment isn’t about sex. It’s about power. It’s about taking pleasure in degrading another human being. Most harassers know damn well that shouting sexual slurs is a lousy seduction strategy. But whether they harass alone or in groups, most men who openly stare, yell, whistle (or worse) aren’t interested in getting laid…What they want is the thrilling reminder of their own masculine power.
masculine power, you say? human beings, you say? interesting erasure of the MAAB problem, and the FACT that whenever anyone “takes pleasure degrading another human being” SEXUALLY, its a fucking MAAB degrading a FAAB. and when i say DEGRADING obviously i mean threatening them with unwanted pregnancy.
but far be it from old PIV-pozzie fun-fem-fucking hugo to be honest about the dangers (to women) of the penis (which is THE SOURCE of masculine power) OR about the direction in which this sexual abuse operates. it all looks a hell of a lot like his “consensual relationships” with his students actually. and, like heterosexuality in general. oops!
scum-o-rama!
note that the vertical axis (want fun-fems to fuck them) is NOT the same as “would stick their dicks into fun-fems if they had the chance.” all men will stick their dicks into any woman at any time, and it has nothing to do with trans-inclusion. perhaps i shouldve said “want fun-fems to ‘envelop’ them” instead? HA!
My favorite part is that the gay men and republicans are both represented by a pink heart.
HA! thanks s4. the hearts made me laugh, i didnt even know my paint program could do that.
The hearts are hilarious!
yay! miskas back!
So, there seems to be a direct relationship between fun-fem fucking and trans political inclusion. Hmmmm. VERY interesting!! ❤
Republicans want to fuck trannies, they’re just not inclusive of them.
I laughed so hard at “male womens-studies professor”. Who ever could that be? XD
Isn’t the widdle red heart a very tiny group of one (possibly two or three – I am sure there are a few more out there)?
I guess he is a speshul snowflake 😛
Bahahahaha!
male womens-studies professors, HOWEVER MANY there may be (!) are off the charts, due to the sheer availability of fun-fems *and* the trans-ownership of the universities these days. i bet old liverlips HATES that theres nothing he can do about continuously being called out for this one, having admitted it publically and everything. with the fun-fems *and* the academy being bogged down in the disingenuous consent-analysis of PIV, i am sure he believed that admitting it, but giving his man-word that it was all “consensual” it would all just magically disappear, and he could get on with his life and his job, as a wolf in sheeps clothing, fox guarding the henhouse etc.
where are yttiks chickens when you need them?
I’ve noticed the more that het feminists have internalized male supremacy, the more they tend to believe twanz are real women (or real men, depending).
among het feminists, yes. i believe so too. although fun-fem lesbians are drinking the kool aid on this one too, as well as all the other fun-fem sex-pozzie bullshit. they just dont *personally* engage in PIV…not because its dangerous, just because they *prefer* not to. what IS a fun-fem lesbian anyway? i mean really. they dont have any political objection to men, they just dont fuck them? hmm. perhaps this is where the transwomen can get by calling THEMSELVES lesbians, just because *they* dont fuck men, either?
other het women however are NOT buying this one, no matter how male-identified they are, or how much they have internalized male supremecy. right-wing women for example would NEVER fall for this, just like republican men dont. its weird. why does this only apply to het feminists i wonder?
why does this only apply to het feminists i wonder?
It’s only the libfem/funfem crowd, who aren’t feminists, they are “humanists”, but pretend they are feminists. I guess it sounds both cool and ‘politically aware’.
They could not bear to be meanies to any Nigels (hey, potential fuckbuddies).
It’s a conflict of interest to be het, and truly feminist. Most radfems end up separatists, it is a natural progression. The one-in-several-million good Nigels out there are too statistically insignificant to be bothered looking for.
“right-wing women for example would NEVER fall for this, just like republican men dont. its weird. why does this only apply to het feminists i wonder?”
It is weird! I think rather than having internalized male supremacy, feminists who support this crap believe they are living in a post feminist world, that they have achieved equality, that this isn’t a patriarchy, it’s a kyriarchy. They tend to believe that feminism is just one small issue in a long series of intersectionality and that men are entitled to be feminists on equal footing with women. (Equal footing means, men are bigger experts about women’s experiences and more qualified to be feminists then women are so they should be leaders within the movement.)
I have to respect right wing women because they won’t even dignify that crap with a response. They know where women stand and they don’t baffle themselves with BS about their status in the world. Right wing women simply accept, “We Are F-ed.” Liberal women want to dress their Nigels up in a teeshirt that says, “This is What a Feminist Looks Like,” and by proxy, I get to be a feminist too! And like a good girl, I will bow to the superiority of my trans sisters and feel the proper amount of shame for my cis privilege.
Among a certain demographic, apolitical/I’m-not-a-feminist lezzies would chart at about the red heart. They don’t think M2T’s are women (and they certainly don’t want to fuck them), they just want the super cool hawt girlz with sassy poli cred to like them.
HA! i thought about where different women might fall on this chart, but decided to only chart the men for now. so, male womens studies profs and apolitical anti-feminist lesbians fall on the same point ay? that sounds about right! too funny noan, thanks.
also, i dont buy that most men accept that MTFs are women either, rather, they are doing it to impress the cool sex-pozzie chicks for sexual gain. thats exactly whats represented by this graph i think. its not a coincidence!
yeah, my comment kinda conflated the point of your graph and later comments.
the anti-feminist L-word wannabe’s are all, like, trans inclusion? is that like that movie with that chick? oh yeah, cool, whatev.
Now I’m just being MEAN ;-P
yeah, well, its true isnt it? its not *your* fault their beliefs (or lack of), mannerisms and entire way of life are unintentionally funny.
When it comes down to it, I think very, very few people really accept, without qualification, that MTFs are women. Acceptance only goes so far – “trans are fine! But I dont want to sleep with them!” that kind of thing.
I believe FCM that you are 100% right in saying that liberal dudes only accept trans inasmuch as that puts them in the good graces of funfems. Why the funfems go for it is another story. I think many of them simply think that the more the merrier, the more people of any sort who identify as feminists, the better it is. Of course, bad allies are worse than no allies at all. Numbers mean shit if the movement is so diluted as to be unrecognisable.
Numbers mean shit if the movement is so diluted as to be unrecognisable.
Nowhere is this better seen than in mainstream feminism, or feminist-lite.
Somehow any benefits for females became purely coincidental.
Why the funfems go for it is another story.
I’m under the impression that it has to do with women’s socialization to be accommodating. To be sensitive and caring. To mother everyone. This was one of the little sparks of insight that led me to radical feminism. I noticed that it was always, ALWAYS, the feminists—the WOMEN—who were expected to rise above and be perfectly accommodating and never, ever, EVER give the hint that we might want to put our interests equal to or (gasp horror!) above the interests of any other marginalized group.
Here’s a perfect example. On LiveJournal there is this community called “vaginapagina.” It’s a community dedicated to information about female reproductive health. A few years ago, there was this big debate because the trans folks were getting their panties into a twist about how marginalized they were by women beginning their posts in greeting to the community with, “hey ladies!” All of a sudden it was like, “BUT SOME OF US ARE NOT LADIEZ! U CAN HAZ UTERUS WITHOUT BEING LADIEZ. YOU ARE OPPRESSING ME.” I held my ground about how absolutely asinine it would be for WOMEN not to address other WOMEN on a page about VAGINAS and the utter hypocrisy of how the mods came down on people for saying, “hi ladies” or “hi gals” but not “hi guys.” Cos, yeah, I’m not a guy. But apparently it was fine for people to say “hi guys” but totally oppressive to say “hi gals” on a PAGE ABOUT VAGINAS. And these women were all too eager to bend over backwards to accommodate them because that’s what we do. We accommodate men. We submit to them. We mother them. We let them fuck us. WE make room for them in our bodies, our lives, our spaces. That’s how we’re socialized, and if we don’t consciously say “fuck that” then we end up doing it, whether we realize it or not.
Why don’t the trans folks go after the gay men instead of the lesbians? Why don’t they go after disability rights activists? Why don’t they go after civil rights/racial rights activists? Oh yeah, because those aren’t the movements focused on WOMEN. Every time I see a funfem woman bending over backwards to provide evidence of appropriate shame for her “cis privilege” all I see is yet another woman apologizing to yet another man for daring to exist. I think that’s what’s going on.
male women’s studies professor category had me h0wling LOL — ship this over to old liver lips! Manconsenusal sex indeed is his middle name.
There are loads of non-feminist non-political lesbians out there unfortunately… just watch the L-Word.
No other civil rights movement that I know of bends over backwards to accomodate the oppressors of said group, except women! And even lesbians are getting bad at this by just letting the trans waltz into our groups now… all public lesbian space in Los Angeles has been ruined by MTFs BTW. ALL. OF. IT. We need a chart for that 😦
Right wing women are just honest about this, and I think that’s very true. Compare Gloria Steinem’s support of Bill Clinton over Monicq Lewinsky vs. Sarah Palin’s emergence on the right wing Christian woman’s scene. Who would you pick as the feminist if you were a right wing christian woman?
Love all the charts and hearts… really cheered me up today 🙂 yeah!
glad i could help sheila! i’m here all week!
seriously though, i am *so* glad there are people around now who were around then, who know what this means. it was a moment in time that i will never forget (obvs) and i am glad that some of us are still around, talking about the “good old days” of pwning liverlips, or whatever, together. thats feminist history, baby! yeah!
for those who *werent* around for hugo pwn-fest 2010, it was an hi-larious and infuriating blogwar (if you can call it that…some dood picked a fight with the radfems and he lost bad HA!) started by a male womens studies professor named HUGO SCHWYZER who is a fun-fem darling and admits to fucking his female students “in the past.” completely grody. google “hugo schwyzer liverlips” to visit his blog. heh.
and the “on credibility” thread on my blog for background and additional info.
Yes to everything you said Selah. That is exactly it.
Feminist-Lite has now descended into parody, just check out the Feministing post on “Why I won’t be talking about abortion as a women’s issue anymore”. What the fuckity fuck??? Every group cracks a speshul snowflake mention except FABs who don’t want to play gender dressups.
Hi guys! :rolls:
Hugo is a goddamn waste of space at best and Feministing can take a ticket and stand in line to kiss my ass.
The Kid suggests that abortion must be a tranz issue now…
hugo is much worse than a waste of space IMO. i have *heard* that he is getting major play in fun fem circles, as well as in the MSM. it gives me the shivers.
also, whats :rolls: mean?
Eye-rollie-smiley-face-thingie. Or I thought it was anyway! -1
You got over excited there SarSea, just a singular ‘roll’ (not plural) 🙄
😛
funfems love hugo and his mansplanations.
http://jezebel.com/#!5789174/how-the-good-guys-are-hard-to-find-narrative-hurts-women
I wasn’t around for the liverlips party, so thanks so much for bringing me up to speed on the current state of paternalistic librul doods. Anyway, speaking of language and how it fixes women in a specific zone, here’s his eminence himself waxing, waxing about, well see for yourself:
“These smart and amazing young women…”
“…these bright and beautiful girls…”
“Teen girls are almost invariably fonts of great wisdom for their peers”
That shit WORKS on funfems?!?!?!?!?
OMG noan…just ew! he is so completely gross. and YES, unfortunately, this appears to WORK.
people are searching “hugo schwyzer liver lips” and finding my blog. ha!
Hugo is also quoted in this article, which is AWESOME until the last 2 paragraphs. He’s SO legit. His exploitation of female sexuality makes me want to castrate. Yes, I did say that. He is a predator, uncontrolled.
http://socialistworker.org/2011/03/29/misogyny-entertainment
from UP’s link:
masculine power, you say? human beings, you say? interesting erasure of the MAAB problem, and the FACT that whenever anyone “takes pleasure degrading another human being” SEXUALLY, its a fucking MAAB degrading a FAAB. and when i say DEGRADING obviously i mean threatening them with unwanted pregnancy.
but far be it from old PIV-pozzie fun-fem-fucking hugo to be honest about the dangers (to women) of the penis (which is THE SOURCE of masculine power) OR about the direction in which this sexual abuse operates. it all looks a hell of a lot like his “consensual relationships” with his students actually. and, like heterosexuality in general. oops!