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the mudflap girl, she has something to say

January 2, 2011

Funfems, right? I cant work out if we are supposed to take them seriously or if they are simply the trolls of the feminist movement.

Consider this piece of hilarity, which can basically be summed up like so:

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I for one am very excited to find out that my fellow radscum and I have these amazing powers. WHO KNEW?

All is not lost for the funfems, however. According to them, they too have special powers:

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Anyway. A similar discussion about the Special Powers of Radfems (in this case, agency denial) can be found here.

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63 Comments leave one →
  1. January 2, 2011 3:53 pm

    omg. HATE! i believe that this emotional-pain-trumps-physical-pain meme is a MALE-CENTERED PERSPECTIVE just like several other male perspectives that have absolutely polluted feminist discourse. men just love to minimize female suffering, what women suffer at the hands of men…so they minimize womens physical pain, and physical and sexual abuse which is ALMOST ALWAYS perpetrated by men. the transwomen say the same damn thing, which is telling. that womens WORDS, specifically RADICAL FEMINIST OBSERVATIONS AND CRITICISM are not only as BAD AS RAPE, DOMESTIC VIOLENCE, AND MURDER, they are actually WORSE.

    WHY? because radical feminist discourse threatens to reduce mens autonomy…you know, to rape, abuse, kill and colonize women. and men read anything that threatens their autonomy (and therefore protects women, interesting that) as violent, even when its not.

    heres a link to my “is eminem a transwoman” post, where (big surprise right?) both eminem and transwoman julia serrano display this shared (male) perspective and behavior too. there is so much evidence out there that the fucking pomos are 100% regurgitating male views, to the detriment of women…like oh say that PIV = sex = PIV. and that non-PIV-centric sex = ABSTINENCE. the fun-fems are getting big fat cookies from teh menz all around, and there are reasons for that. DUH!

    http://factcheckme.wordpress.com/2010/08/29/is-eminem-a-transwoman/

  2. lizor permalink
    January 2, 2011 5:32 pm

    Great post. And funny in that I’m-so-fucking-horrified-I-have-to-laugh kind of way.

  3. Selah permalink
    January 2, 2011 5:51 pm

    Since when has critique become hate speech? Give me a fucking break. All of the “examples of hate speech” are nothing of the sort. Well, MAYBE the “sex workers” section borders on being disrespectful, AS STATED (a misrepresentation of what radfems are actually saying).

    Did this start with the trans activists? This idea that any thoughtful critique can be called hate speech if we don’t like what it is saying? Because I can’t believe any reasonably intelligent person would buy this utter bullshit.

  4. SheilaG permalink
    January 2, 2011 6:52 pm

    Just love this new site Miska! All of it excellent, clever and powerful. I often feel that radical feminism needs more visuals and this is it! I think we all know that men are threatened when women take power, and they will fight tooth and nail to derail, to con other women into “token torturer” roles.

    I believe all the funfeminism stuff is very much in line with 19th early 20th century radical feminists vs. the 1920s. A younger generation of the 1920s thought that sex and alcohol and smoking was liberating, and that 19th century feminists were dour and dull. Patriarchy always makes sure that any movement among women is undermined by the next generation of women betraying radical feminism.

    I believe that funfems are those who hate the older generation of feminists… and I often come upon women in their early to mid-30s today who are kind of throw backs. They get married, take the husband’s last name, have kids, stay at home, and say provocative things… predictable to me now, since it is so consistent.

    What appears to them to be clever, ironic, cynical, or funfem sexxxy, burlesque as “liberating” all that stuff… the use of the word “empowered” is a real danger sign. They don’t see the big picture of patriarchy as a global system, and the oppression of women goes on.

    Men are threatened and always will be because they have so much to lose. They try every trick in the book to keep women divided, keep the system in place, back down when women demand it. And, with our failing educational system, the logic fail, the cluelessness of fun fems might be chalked up to inability to read difficult material or think critically. Never underestimate the power of generations of illiterate women undermining the hard work of a Dworkin or Daly.

  5. Nelle permalink
    January 2, 2011 6:52 pm

    Is it ok if I curse on your blog?

    Cause holy shit-I have never read a bunch of hilarious garbage like this in a while from a funfem standpoint. I am really starting to think that funfeminism is about protecting the CONSUMERS of porn , not the “actresses” (notice how I said “actresses”,meaning *female*). “Harm reduction” is such bullshit in porn and prostitution (same diff?). How about making harm reduction non existent at all because porn is non-existent?Hows about that? But, I guess words like “filthy whore slut gets anal by big nasty cock” aren’t hurting anyone. Just radfeminists and their truthfulness and honesty-that of which many porn advocates do not have, and make melodramatic responses to feminism to appeal to feelingz that all females are expected to have and respond to politely.

    Everything in that article demonizes Radfeminism from the very start-and it seems as though the author was making shit up as she went along. This is why I started to not even look at any feminist blogs-cause these types of views are plastered all over the internet. It annoyed the daylights out of me. I’m just glad I finally found *some* non-mainstream stuff last year.

    Shit, this makes me want to have my own blog about this. I’m just a kid though, dipping my toes in radfem ideology for a little bit growing up.

    It’s just really ridiculous ..the lengths pomos will go through to villify anyone who opposes their viewpoints. And it’s more amazing that there are people stupid enough to believe their every word. Of course, men align themselves with their group because they are helping preserve their male privelege-and these women just don’t see it.

  6. January 3, 2011 1:09 am

    @FCM

    Yes, i think it is exactly as you say – it’s a male centered perspective reflected in this travesty of a post. Notice how the piece is co-authored by one CALUM Bennachie. I mean, we can tell it’s authored by a male anyway, because men are the ones who are always saying that other things are “like rape”. How fucking offensive.

    WHY? because radical feminist discourse threatens to reduce mens autonomy…you know, to rape, abuse, kill and colonize women. and men read anything that threatens their autonomy (and therefore protects women, interesting that) as violent, even when its not.

    exactly. The thing is, it wouldnt actually matter that men whine about feminist discourse being equivalent to violence, IF WOMEN CALLED THEM OUT ON IT. You know, if feminists just told them to grow up and get a bit of perspective, ffs. But instead feminists by and large just lap this shit up and then regurgitate it. I really think the infiltration of trans-activism into feminism is responsible for the style of argument in the feministing post. It has set a precedent of male-centered argument (and logic fail) in feminism which is leaking into other areas. That post has basically taken shoddy trans activist rhetoric and shoe-horned it into a “sex workers rights” diatribe. It reads exactly the same.

  7. January 3, 2011 1:22 am

    @ Selah

    Did this start with the trans activists? This idea that any thoughtful critique can be called hate speech if we don’t like what it is saying? Because I can’t believe any reasonably intelligent person would buy this utter bullshit.

    Yes, I noticed the whole OMG HATE SPEEEEEECH!! thing happening in this post too. And I reckon you’re right that this trend started with the transactivists.

    The thing that bothers me, is that there is what I would call hate speech against prostitutes – it’s people making dead hooker jokes, and video games where you can shoot strippers and mow down street walkers. But it’s not radfems behind this. It’s fucking men.

  8. January 3, 2011 1:30 am

    i think this is what i will write about next actually. it follows nicely from the discussions we have been having lately about mens reality and male-centric discourse. criticism = “hate speech” indeed! because the only “harm” that men (perhaps white men in particular) can conceive of is hurt-feelings, and feeling slighted. they cannot conceive of ACTUAL, DEMONSTRABLE, AND SERIOUS harm, like the harms they perpetrate on women every single fucking day of their lives, like pregnancy scares, rape-apologism, and of course actual rape and murder of women, by men.

    its also as if they dont understand the meaning of commonly-used words, which of course is a problem with pomo generally (not coincidentally). such as…this is exactly the same as that. for anyone who doesnt “do” logic, “the same” means “equals”, or “=”. whenever someone says this, i look at the things before and after the “=” and SEE, FOR MYSELF, if these things really are “=”. of course, in the feministing article, their “=” does NOT mean equals. and we arent as fucking stupid as they need us to be, to buy this garbage they are selling. BUT OTHER PEOPLE ARE, and these people have disposable income and are LITERALLY buying their garbage i mean books and college courses in which they expound on these concepts. its HORRIBLE, and horribly dishonest.

  9. January 3, 2011 1:42 am

    @Sheila

    Thanks for the good words!

    I agree that it goes in cycles and that this “third wave” backlash against feminism is nothing new. Good call with the women of the 192o’s.

    Also agree that patriarchy ensures that feminist work is always undermined by the next generation of women. I’ve noticed that in bookshops the ever-shrinking feminist shelf will usually only carry the latest feminist works. Except for The Female Eunuch and The Second Sex. The rest is all Naomi Wolf and Christina Hoff Sommers. It’s really quite difficult to source any second wave books, even so called classics.

  10. SheilaG permalink
    January 3, 2011 4:03 am

    Hey Miska, the one thing that needs to be done is to make very clear the history…. 1880s = radical feminists
    1920 = vote for women nationwide 1920s = next generation having funfeminism…. flappers, Zelda, jazz age, women smoking in public…
    Pre-baby boomer women = radical women awaken, 1960s second wave women breaking through
    1970s on up porn backlash, 1990s Baby boomer women getting dissed by 1920s era funfems
    2000s funfems with no herstory or solid feminist reading, get stuck once again in the patriarchy

    FCM has excellent sexual science analysis of this too and PIV– she said since men would have less access to prostitutes, they had to train their wives to be prostitute-like in the sex… combine it with what happens when younger women don’t have access to Dworkin, Daly, Spender and others, and we are back to square one… then we get the token torturer sell outs like Hoff-Sommers and Naomi Wolf… and of course, because they are the HOPs they get the bucks the NYT op-eds, the talk shows… you know the drill. But when did a major talk show do a retrospective on Mary Daly or Dworkin? When was the last time you saw several documentaries that detailed everything about the feminist movement, from consciousness raising to Daly’s fight against Boston College?

    We get erased, and we get this weird disconnect between lesbian feminists, lesbians and straight women. We get straight women still subsisting on hetero-subsidy from men, thus never knowing the true cost of living—white women, middle class mostly, so they never ever get it, and we go around again.

    Now you’d think that all women who can read English would get that there is a patriarchy, it has been around for a long time, and that feminism grows strong in one place, gets derailed in another, and that half the human race gets conned by the other half. Young women are recruited and groomed for sexual service to men–it’s why older men are always on the hunt for younger impressionable women to manipulate, control and sexually colonize…and now we have the menace of MTFs trans-types going into lesbian spaces, running lesbian groups and assaulting sacred events like Michigan Womyn’s Music Festival, and young lesbians are letting them right in the front door..because former male bodied people always count more than any woman… patriarchy… HOPs… it’s a system sisters.

    Sorry for the rant. Wish I had the visual talent of a MISKA or an FCM… print obsessed old fashioned me 😦

  11. thebewilderness permalink
    January 3, 2011 5:53 am

    Whenever they use the term “sex worker” I think it important to remember that they are speaking of the pimps, traffickers, and the trafficked, as though they all do the same ‘work’. They do not.

    I am not the least bit interested in the self worth problems that pimps and traffickers, these so called sex workers, suffer as a result of their “work” being criticized.
    I am concerned with the suffering of prostituted women. I want it to end.

  12. January 3, 2011 6:46 am

    Good point thebewilderness. the term “sex worker” is problematic for its neutrality.

    Also, I dont think it is an accurate title for most of the women in the industry.

    The women who refer to themselves as “sex workers” , well, they’re the careerists. The ones who are out, proud and vocal and write feminist blogs. But these women are the teeny, tiny minority.

    When I was pre-radical I worked as a cashier/greeter in two brothels over the span of a few years. I got to know a lot of women there very well (in fact I met my best friend there). I can tell you, none of the women at these brothels referred to themselves as “sex workers”. Hooking was just something they were doing until they paid off their credit card debt or until they graduated. They didnt define themselves as “sex workers” (and the funfems should pay attention to this, because according to them self-definition is king).

    They didnt own “sex worker” as part of their identity. At all. Instead they defined themselves as students, mothers, whatever else they had going on in their lives, and hooking was just something they did on the side, in secret, all the while looking forward to the day when they could leave it all behind and never have to think about it again.

    I mean, that is really telling I think.

    It’s really telling the lengths that women will go to to disassociate from the idea that they are a “sex worker”.

    I remember one time a woman was getting on the nerves of the other women, and one of them asked her something like “Jeeze, why are you so stuck up?” and the woman replied “because I’m not a fucking whore like the rest of you!”

    You know, even though she was getting fucked by men for cash like the rest of them, in her mind she wasn’t like them. She wasnt a whore like them. Or a sex worker. whatever.

    I saw a lot of cognitive dissonance at these brothels, and I’m not judging the women at all – it’s a coping strategy. On a basic level fucking men you dont want to fuck, night after night, REQUIRES some degree of cognitive dissonance.

    It’s why I’ve always mistrusted the “sex worker rights” movement. It’s fundamentally dishonest to claim you are fighting for the rights of a group when a large majority of that group reject the idea that they belong to that group in the first place. Under those circumstances it is impossible to have a rights movement in the vein of say, feminism, or gay rights etc

  13. January 3, 2011 6:53 am

    Incidentally for about 6 months I was planning a series on prostitution based on my time working in these brothels. I finished about half the posts, but I decided not to publish because it was very difficult to make my points without using examples which were based on the experiences of individual women I met there. It felt a bit exploitative.

    I would like to write about it in more general terms at some point though.

  14. Sargassosea permalink
    January 3, 2011 5:40 pm

    Holy crap that ’article’ was just dumbfounding. So, WE are the ones who are causing harm to ‘sex workers’? WE are causing women to be victimized by pointing out that they are being victimized? WE should be silenced!

    Yes, sisters, black is indeed white and up is actually down.

    Thanks, Miska for this new site 🙂

  15. Muhammad permalink
    January 3, 2011 7:33 pm

    @FCM

    “the only ‘harm’ that men (perhaps white men in particular) can conceive of is hurt-feelings, and feeling slighted. they cannot conceive of ACTUAL, DEMONSTRABLE, AND SERIOUS harm”

    I’m not trying to diminish the suffering that women go through every day at the hands of men…but surely you don’t believe that white men don’t know what real, actual physical harm is?

  16. January 4, 2011 1:51 am

    why, in the very first comment FCM dropped a link to a whole post which answers your question. CLICK IT. And dont come back until you have something worthwhile to contribute. I wont be holding my breath.

  17. January 4, 2011 2:06 am

    Feministing is a fucking let down. It’s so white, middle class American that I really just end up yelling at my monitor most of the time.

    I wonder what my friend who O.D’d on smack in between being paid to be raped by johns would think of all this. Oh wait, she can’t say anything, because she is forever silenced.

    I wonder what the trafficked prostituted womyn and girls from Asia to Australia would say about all this? I wonder what the 13 year old girl who is being pimped by her older boyfriend would say about all this.

    Oh wait, they wouldn’t be able to say anything either, because if they spoke out it would be WORSE than the men who are responsible for putting them in that position in the first place.

    What a load of shit.

    P.S Muhammad, do you not have something better to do than hang around on radical feminist sites all the time?

  18. January 4, 2011 2:45 am

    @Aileen Wuornos:

    Ever since a man commentor answered another man commentor on feminsting by ignoring all the women commentors who preceded him to announce that Andrea Dworkin should be ignored (contrary to every woman poster prior) – and I called him out for it and was reprimanded by funz for “alienating” an “ally” (by demanding he demonstrate any modicum of respect for the ideas of women at the very least in a feminist space), I have flatly refused to waste my time at Feministing.

    Also, it bears noting that rape is rape; being commercially raped in Little Rock isn’t dramatically different from being commercially raped in Pyongyang. Women are enslaved as masturbation meatpuppets in every country in the world.

    @Muhammed:

    Wow, here too?

    I’ll make an analogy to answer your question.

    Comparing men’s harm to women’s harm is like comparing a support group for victims of random violence to a support group for combat veterans. I shouldn’t have to explain that further.

    -Miss Andrist
    Lover of Men

  19. January 4, 2011 5:24 am

    -Miss Andrist
    Lover of Men

    ha ha ha!

    I like your style.

  20. Muhammad permalink
    January 4, 2011 6:21 am

    Yeah, I know, I’m treading on thin ice here but I was just being pedantic is all. I’m not trying to trivialize women’s suffering. Miss Andrist, I wasn’t trying to compare men’s harm to women’s harm, I’m sorry if that’s how it came across. Like I said, I was just being a little pedantic, FCM said something that I don’t think is true. She said that men cannot conceive of actual, serious harm, we can only conceive of ‘hurt feelings’. I just thought it strange for someone to say something like that. We know that’s not true, right? There’s no harm in being factually correct, is there?

    I think that just hit a nerve for me because of what happened to to my brothers, uncle and cousins back in Shali, in the 1990’s. You know, what with the bombings and everything. My male family members (and my mother) died in Shali and my Dad lost his leg, so I guess it just kinda felt like a kick in the balls to say that we don’t know what real pain is. It just felt kinda shitty to have such a harrowing calamity in my life glossed over, as if it never happened.

    That’s all I wanted to say; of course men experience *actual* harm. I didn’t intend to offend anybody.

  21. SheilaG permalink
    January 4, 2011 7:39 am

    Again I see no clear evidence that men even know they are doing harm to women. There is just no there there with men, no concept of the distruction they do to women, no concept that their very sexual entitlement destroys women’s live, and they show no sign of stopping this behavior ever. After watching their reactions to attrocities they commit against women, and their justification for rape, enslavement and brutality toward women, I am almost convinced that they are not even human beings anymore.

    They don’t know that sex as they know it does a lot of harm to women, they don’t know that their love of war and competition destroys women, they don’t know that they are destroying the earth, destroying the world… no clue, as if they are innocents, completely unaware of what they do day in and day out. Whether it is the belittling sexist comments, the attacks and pornography, the honor killings, the sexual destruction and colonization of women, I believe women face an enemy so callous, so demented and so out of touch with reality that to call men human at all might actually be a waste of time. And they don’t see it. They see a reflection of themselves everywhere as if they were little mirrors.

  22. January 4, 2011 10:10 am

    alienating an ally ay? i dont suppose they see this as IRONIC at all. since the lefty-liberal dickwads have been throwing liberal women under the bus (and raping and killing them) from the beginning, which is where second-wave feminism started in the first fucking place. dworkin documents this rather painfully in her memoir, how she walked out of the anti-war left because they were fucking misogynist assholes…particularly memorable is how she stood up at a friends funeral to condemn her lefty liberal dickwad husband who had murdered her…and was booed off the stage. ONE WOMAN told her she was “brave” for standing up for her friend, literally as she was running out the door.

    and miska…you have your resident mansplainer already. congrats. that didnt take long, at all.

    tell me, resident mansplainer: you and your dad and cousins etc all feel SLIGHTED by what happened to you. dont you? its not FAIIRRRRRRR. right? which is my entire fucking point. getting your legs blown off in war or whatever isnt SO BIZARRE that it leaves you saying HUH? its just terribly unfortunate. which *is* how men experience harm. as completely sex-neutral, couldve happened to anyone, run of the mill lifes-a-bitch type stuff. dont pretend its something its not. and dont pretend i am wrong, when i am not. and when (as miska said) you either didnt read my link,, or didnt have the brainpower to understand it. thanks!

  23. January 4, 2011 11:43 am

    Actually I should say that’s a RELATED point to the point I made in the “eminem” post. For more on men experiencing unfaiiirrrrness see “failure of application vs failure of reason.” Can’t link to it right now though, sorry.

    I will also register my complaint to allowing unapologetic asshole pedantic mansplainers on a scum-themed blog. I am JUST TALKING here miska, and obvs its your blog, but damn its hard to muck through that shit! I can barely even read most blogs comments anymore, ever since I stopped approving mansplanations and mainstream anything on my blog. It’s really interesting actually, how you can just really get completely used to the banality of mainstream thinking, and then once you take yourself out of it, you can get completely used to being without it, so much so that it looks just damn strange. The banality! It bores.

  24. January 4, 2011 12:45 pm

    Also, it bears noting that rape is rape; being commercially raped in Little Rock isn’t dramatically different from being commercially raped in Pyongyang. Women are enslaved as masturbation meatpuppets in every country in the world.

    No disagreement from me here. Rape is rape is rape is rape. And paid rape is paid rape.

    I got banned from feministing when I made the “transition” (HAH) from libertarian hedonist pseudo feminist to real, womon-centric radical feminism. Hahha, male “allies” make me laugh.

    @Muhammad, this is the last time I will indulge you now or any where.

    It just felt kinda shitty to have such a harrowing calamity in my life glossed over, as if it never happened.

    Stop thinking you’re a special fucking snowflake.

  25. January 4, 2011 1:44 pm

    I’ve never liked feministing and I dont think Ive ever had an account there. It’s so insipid. It’s a funfem site but it doesnt even have “fun” going for it, unlike say, jezebel. It doesnt have the tight-knit community of other funfem blogs like shakesville or feministe, and all the posts there are just re-blogged news items. Why do people bother reading it? Because it’s there? I honestly dont get it.

    FCM I will also register my complaint to allowing unapologetic asshole pedantic mansplainers on a scum-themed blog.

    Ha. Yeah, I wasnt intending on publishing anything other than muhammad’s first comment, but I forgot that I have this blog set to auto-accept comments once someone has one approved comment.

    I hear you on the banality of mainstream discussion. Over at fab matters I probably delete more comments than I publish. I just cant be bothered. And muhammad has demonstrated why. We’re all having a conversation here and he waltzes in and couldnt even pay lip service to the post topic. Instead he narrates a family tragedy and we’re supposed to respond to it, that way the thread becomes all about His Life instead of about funfems and prostituted women.

    And i love how he adds a little disclaimer – “I’m not trying to diminish women’s suffering”

    dude, attempting to turn a convo about women’s suffering into a convo about YOU and YOUR personal tragedies? THAT RIGHT THERE is diminishing women’s suffering.

  26. January 4, 2011 1:55 pm

    I think for me it was one of the first things that came up when googling feminist blogging or some shit. Because Valenti wrote that book about teh sexistez doublez standardz? Who the fuck knows. I actually brought her book Full Frontal Feminism and it was a bigger load of shit than what you find in Cosmo, seriously.

    dude, attempting to turn a convo about women’s suffering into a convo about YOU and YOUR personal tragedies? THAT RIGHT THERE is diminishing women’s suffering.

    Ah Mishka, you rock my labia.

  27. January 4, 2011 3:10 pm

    @Aileen Wuornos:

    I’m sorry, I just realized my final remarks might have come off on a corrective note – I meant them as an addendum, not a dismissal. Sorry about that.

    @Miksa:

    Thanks. ~_^ It’s my tribute to Solanas.

    @Muhammed:

    I’m ignoring the “kick in the balls” remark for now. I’ll articulate a couple of concepts here that should help clear up your confusion.

    I used the analogy of a group of combat veterans and a group of victims of violent crime to demonstrate first and foremost that the experiences of both groups are of absolute seriousness, and secondly to emphasize the numerous similarities shared by both groups.

    The notable difference between the two groups is scale.

    FCM (and the others) assert that men can’t fathom suffering on the scale of women’s reality. No matter how tragic a man’s experience, it would have been worse for him if he’d been a woman (a fact which must almost always must be pointed out to him.) No matter how bad a man has it, a woman has it worse – and always at the discretion of men. In fact, men are so incredibly divorced from the scale of harm women experience that for womens’ purposes that we struggle to explain how it’s possible (especially since it’s men doing the harm to us.)

    Second, we assume we’re talking about the experiences of women as a matter of default. Remember? Feminism is about women. Men cannot conceive of actual, serious harm {ON THE SCALE OF WOMEN’S REALITY}. Also, I’ll spare you from making the mistake of suggesting that we should specify that we are talking about women’s reality. Women are the default subject here. Not men. We all understood that the subject default was women. We only specify when we’re NOT talking about women. Go back and re-read prior comments and you will notice this pattern – and our meaning will become much more clear to you.

    After all, there’s no harm in accuracy.

    What FCM said is absolutely, completely accurate: Men cannot conceive of actual, serious harm done to women. To us.

    What we usually encounter is men insisting that men’s experience of harm equates to women’s experience of harm. This is bullshit.

    What happened to your family is absolutely tragic.

    Women are not magically immune to any of the things you described; everything that men do to men in a warzone, men do to women, too. And men do lots of things to women that they do not do to men.

    None of this makes what men did to your family, or what men do to men right, or okay, or trivial, or irrelevant.

    None of this changes the fact that what men do to women is worse.

    Those two facts can coexist. We are talking about women’s experience here. I’m sorry it felt shitty to have these terrible experiences glossed over. Men do that to us constantly – when men are not shaming us and punishing us for what men do to us.

    How do you think we feel?

    My father has HIV; my mother is dying of arachniditis; my sister spent seven years as combat communications in the Marine Corps, fighting the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. I was a victim of commercialized rape, aka, prostitution – a high dollar escort. I estimate I have been raped between roughly five hundred and a thousand times based on how much I had to have earned per call while I was escorting. I have been pregnant fifteen times. I bore two daughters and lost one. And my experience is not unique.

    Unlike you, I can’t talk publicly about what happened to me. I can’t talk about my experience, often even to my best friends. I can’t even go to group therapy and tell the truth.

    How do you suppose that feels? Wax philosophical about it, and be as pedantic as you like.

    -Miss Andrist
    Lover of Men

  28. Sargassosea permalink
    January 4, 2011 3:27 pm

    Women have “harrowing calamities” going down in their lives every damn day and the entire WORLD glosses right over them. So, you know, stfu.

    I did a little googling around on our Mr. Bennachie and it seems that he’s just another one of your run o’ the mill entitled white ‘liberal’ wads only with a Kiwi accent – he also appears to offer commitment ceremony help (?) on the side.

    And Miska? IS it okay to swear here? Because everybody knows I love me some swearin’!

  29. January 4, 2011 4:15 pm

    To clarify, I actually have 2 points operating here. The first is that men equate men’s emotional pain with women’s actual physical pain, or actually say that men’s emotional pain is EVEN WORSE than women’s physical pain. Which serves men nicely of course, since men actually cause almost all the physical pain women experience, and then often pretend to or actually do “feel bad” after. Which makes THEM the real victims, not women. And MEN’S EMOTIONAL pain is real pain, not women’s physical pain. That’s the point of the eminem post.

    Then, whenever men experience “real” pain or harm, its merely unfortunate. It’s unfaiiirrrr. Which is what miss andrist was describing. Men get their legs blown off in war. Okay! Well, women do too, and THEN a soldier or even a man from her own community will rape her on top of it, or stick a gun inside her vagina and stab her with it until she’s dead. Or you know, pull the trigger. Huh? Even putting a penis into a vagina is a whopper of a “Wtf?” once you get off the piv pony, and start seeing it for what it is. It’s like someone sticking his dick into your heart (a vagina is an organ, not a fuckhole). Or, like someone putting their spleen into your lung. Try explaining any of this to a man who believes from his male-privileged perspective that piv is “sex” and essentially that rape is too. This patent unreasonableness, the literal insanity TO WOMEN of living in a male-centric world that men will never understand (and don’t care about at all) is the point of the “application vs reason” post.

  30. January 4, 2011 6:00 pm

    Muhammad, you miss the point. Men can conceive of harm to themselves just fine, and they can recognize and feel empathy for the harm done to their property. But they don’t recognize the harm as harm and they don’t empathize with the suffering which results when men dehumanize women — THAT kind of harm doesn’t seem to exist for most men.

  31. January 4, 2011 6:10 pm

    Besides that, I personally feel that radical feminism is for the edification of other women, it’s really not for men. Feminism a la Amanda Marcotte style is the happy face of feminism which gently coaxes buttholes into behaving like human beings and does this without hurting butthole’s massive ego too much, thereby triggering his defensiveness. Radical feminism is to help women deprogram themselves from the internalized male supremist mindset, it pushes the boundaries of what’s already sorta mainstream accepted thought.

    As someone else said* “when men cook dinner, they do it for themselves; when women cook dinner, men assume it’s for them to eat”. This isn’t for you to eat Muhammad.

    *Possibly FCM.

  32. January 4, 2011 6:32 pm

    It’s like a bunch of women talking amongst themselves, who have been talking amongst themselves for quite a long while, and have developed shorthand methods of conveying more complicated ideas to each other. And here comes a man who doesn’t understand what they’re saying to each other but magically assumes he’s entitled to butt in and nag them to death until the women speak in a way that he does understand. But this conversation is not intended for your benefit at all, it’s for women.

    And the thing we talk about is all the various ways men assume they are entitled to butt in, all the ways men routinely dehumanize us and all the ways some women just accept their doormat status quite cheerfully. So your being “pendantic” is just more assholish entitlement.

  33. January 4, 2011 7:23 pm

    I still haven’t commented on the subject of the post itself, which I love. Miska, these graphics are just so helpful!!

    They didnt own “sex worker” as part of their identity. At all. Instead they defined themselves as students, mothers, whatever else they had going on in their lives, and hooking was just something they did on the side, in secret, all the while looking forward to the day when they could leave it all behind and never have to think about it again.

    It’s really telling the lengths that women will go to to disassociate from the idea that they are a “sex worker”.

    I think it’s really telling how far women will go to distance themselves from the idea that they are prostituting THEMSELVES. (Yes yes coercion and all that, limited choices blah blah.) At the end of the day, the women you described still had much-more-than-limited choice and they chose to prosititute themselves. The women you described are probably the same type of women who would say they weren’t abused, weren’t coerced, weren’t this weren’t that and hey don’t forget they’re”empowered”. So according to their own standards, their choice to prostitute themselves had a fair amount of agency behind it. Of course they’re going to describe themselves as students, mothers, etc — their whole point is to avoid acknowleging that they’re hooking. Their whole point is to avoid taking responsiblity for what happens to the class-wide status of women when so many women live their lives according to patriarchal principles.

    “I’m always empowered” is the flip side of the same coin as “I’m always a victim” — rarely includes any nuance — and they just use whichever excuse absolves them of responsiblity for their own choices at the time. Many years ago, there was a period where I was dead broke, no friends, no family I could call on for help and yet managed to find a way to make ends meet without renting my vagina out by the hour. I ended up working three part time jobs, about 70 hours a week and living in this basement unfinished “apartment” which had exposed pipes, electrical, and studs, etc. I also was taking one class at university cos that’s all I had time for. I chose not to prostitute myself. I chose not to listen to all the crap which encouraged me to become a prostitute. I chose not to be some asshole’s doormat girlfriend just to score a better place to live. My humanity was worth the sacrifice.

    The vast majority of the women you described are now the funfems of today, and they’re still making excuses for their own behavior. They’re Uncle Toms dancing a jig for white supremancy. I know we here in feminist space like to point to the three former prostituted women who are now brilliant radical feminists, but perhaps it’s about time we noticed that those three women are OUTLIERS.

    What’s my point? They have “some” amount of choice in how they live their lives, and they consistently choose the most comfortable option for themselves while not giving a rat’s ass how their choice to perpetuate sexist ideology negatively affects women as a class — and then they want a pat on the head. My point, is that these bimbos are never going to stop pulling this shit as long as radical feminists and feminists give them a free pass. Hold them accountable for the amount of choice they do have. This is not a situation where they have “zero” choice, and the radical feminist response should accurately reflect the amount of “some” choice they do have.

  34. January 4, 2011 7:41 pm

    You inspired me to actually do a video about this feministing article. I read it weeks ago and was really angry but didn’t do anything on it because of distraction. What really annoys me is the language of it. Its directly written like an abusive spouse (husband, lets be honest) would speak to their victim. Its all YOUR fault if you’ve been victimized.

    I’m really just all over the place about it but what the hell is wrong with people? Do they really think only weak people become victims?

  35. January 4, 2011 11:28 pm

    Nuclear night – you should drop the link here. i would be interested in seeing your vid.

    @Sar

    Swear all you like – I am quite fond of a good swear myself. Re Bennachie, I did some googling too. Apparently he is (or has been) a rent boy, hence his “sex worker activism. The experiences of men and women in prostitution are so different that men should never be speaking on behalf of prostituted women.

  36. January 5, 2011 1:12 am

    I think it’s really telling how far women will go to distance themselves from the idea that they are prostituting THEMSELVES. (Yes yes coercion and all that, limited choices blah blah.) At the end of the day, the women you described still had much-more-than-limited choice and they chose to prosititute themselves. The women you described are probably the same type of women who would say they weren’t abused, weren’t coerced, weren’t this weren’t that and hey don’t forget they’re”empowered”. So according to their own standards, their choice to prostitute themselves had a fair amount of agency behind it. Of course they’re going to describe themselves as students, mothers, etc — their whole point is to avoid acknowleging that they’re hooking. Their whole point is to avoid taking responsiblity for what happens to the class-wide status of women when so many women live their lives according to patriarchal principles.

    On one hand I do think women who are complicit with male supremacy should be held accountable, but I dont think it is as clear cut as your comment suggests in regards to prostitution. as i’m sure you know women find themselves entering prostitution for all sorts of reasons and through different pathways (including the wheeee I’m gonna empower myself by renting out my vagina sexxy funfem path).

    But for what it’s worth the MAJORITY of women I met at these brothels were young (under 23yo) mothers. They had no work experience/skills, no higher education and were trying to eke out a living in one of the most expensive cities in the world. With toddlers. Hooking was the one thing they could do which paid them enough AND gave them the flexibility they needed in order to primary caregive WITHOUT needing prior work experience/ saleable job skills. There is literally no other job which offers that for young women. One woman there told me she had a choice between hooking, or her and her baby moving back in with her abusive ex (the father). That’s not a real choice, obviously. I would say most (not all) of the women there faced such conundrums, and hers was relatively mild even. The economic burden of motherhood and prostitution are a match made in heaven. It’s one of patriarchy’s greatest conveniences.

    The other thing is, a lot of women get sucked into the idea that hooking IS GREAT. They’ve read cosmo articles about empowerment through sex work. It seems so easy, glamorous even. They buy into the idea and they give it a go. Some of them hate it right away, but some are like “whee this is great, all this money!” And they do it for a few months, a year, whatever. After a while it starts taking its toll and all they can think about is getting out.

    But it is so hard to leave once you’re in. I’m not even talking about drug dependency problems or coercive pimps etc. It’s even just the job itself which has a way of cutting women off from “normal” society. You’re working all night, sleeping all day. You’re getting paid in cash so you can go a whole year without having to do normal people things like going to the bank. It’s often all secret because very few women are “out” to their friends/family. So you end up befriending other women in the industry because they are the only people you feel like you can be 100% honest with, and those friendships entrench you even deeper into the lifestyle. All these things function to disconnect women from regular society. I mean, I felt that disconnect while working and I was just a greeter.

    and I think the whole stigma against prostitution is deliberate on patriarchy’s part – because it forces women into this disconnect, which in turn helps to keep women from leaving prostitution. I think it’s the reason why the patriarchy has never been so interested in legalizing it.

    It’s also very difficult to find other work when you’ve been hooking for 3 years or whatever.What are you going to put on your resume? Who’s going to give you a reference? One of the johns?

    Here’s the thing. When people talk about “choice” for women in prostitution, they’re usually talking about the choice to START hooking. But there is also the issue of “choice” for women who STAY hooking. The latter is way more problematic and more of a grey area than the former. As mentioned, women find themselves entering prostitution through different pathways, BUT, the barriers to leaving are often the same regardless of how one entered the industry.

    Anyhow. I could say a lot more about this, but it’s already too loooooong. I will say that so called feminists who promote “sex work” as a viable and empowering career should be held accountable because there is absolutely no justification there.

  37. January 5, 2011 3:12 am

    My fave quote from a commenter on Feministing:
    “I’m having attention-span issues right now and can’t read the whole post, but I want to say I’m really glad you channeled your emotions into this awesome-looking post”.
    The post looks awesome! There are words! They look awesome! *snicker*

  38. January 5, 2011 3:23 am

    Oh this was so good, thank you for this:

    Here’s the thing. When people talk about “choice” for women in prostitution, they’re usually talking about the choice to START hooking. But there is also the issue of “choice” for women who STAY hooking. The latter is way more problematic and more of a grey area than the former. Because as mentioned, women find themselves entering prostitution through different pathways, BUT, the barriers to leaving are often the same regardless of how one entered the industry.

    Never thought about it like that before. It would be extremely informative if you decided to write more about prostitution and your experiences with it, I’d probably learn a lot. But I guess I am almost entirely devoid of compassion for stupid people, because my very first reaction to this part:

    But for what it’s worth the MAJORITY of women I met at these brothels were young (under 23yo) mothers. They had no work experience/skills, no higher education and were trying to eke out a living in one of the most expensive cities in the world. With toddlers.

    was to ask, “what kind of idiot completes a pregnancy and keeps the kid, under those conditions”? I mean, really. We know they’re not religious because if they had been, then they probably wouldn’t have entered prostitution. So obeying the fairy sky god’s command to avoid abortion wasn’t the issue. Basically, we have a bunch of patriarchally brainwashed idiots, no job skills in a very expensive town, no ability to recognize that their boyfriend is an asshole, and then they decide to keep the kid with no plan in place to adequately provide for that child. So we’re talking about women who land on the dumb/irresponsible side of the spectrum. Really no wonder they continue to make stupid choices, they already have a pattern of doing so. Unfortunately, this situation appears to be self-selection.

    I sincerely apologize for my lack of compassion for morons — you probably weren’t expecting me to say anything other than rah rah poor innocent misguided girls. Sometimes even I wish I had more compassion, but for whatever reason today is just not one of those days. Please keep in mind, I’m only referring to the “empowered” funfems, the ones who insist they weren’t abused coerced etc. And just because someone is stupid enough to let a man pay to rape them, doesn’t mean it’s okay for the man to do so. Or that assistence to help them get out of prostitution should be denied.

    But can we please have some accountability? If they’re too stupid to live without assistence, then maybe they should relinquish the right to vote and go live in an assisted-care facility. Or perhaps encourage them to give up their kid to adoption; raising a child in that kind of environment is frickin child abuse. (Isn’t the child important, hello?) And then they can get a regular JOB without the extra burden of childcare. Really not kidding how badly I loath stupid people…

  39. January 5, 2011 3:34 am

    If the reason most of these empowered funfems get into prostitution is because they’re trying to provide for their child, then removing the child would also remove their excuse for entering prostition. Is what I was trying to say. The presence of the child is nothing more than a justification.

    “I know what I did was wrong, but here’s why I did it anyway”. That form is always a justification. Which is why it cuts no dice with me. Again, apologies, you probably weren’t expecting me to be unsympathetic.

  40. January 5, 2011 3:50 am

    What do the Swedes have to say regarding the motivations of the young empowered non-coerced women who enter prostitution? Knowing that would probably be helpful…

  41. January 5, 2011 7:43 am

    Ah, I thought of an anology which might help to explain how I was thinking through this.

    Transgendered individuals experience a great deal of pain, and I can feel sympathy for their distress. However, at the same time that I have sympathy for their distress, I can also see that not only is their behavior a result of patriarchal conditioning but that their behavior reifies patriarchal conditioning. It’s a vicious circle; class woman is harmed, and so getting them to stop is my goal.

    Their behavior will not cease by offering excuses and justifications for their behavior (which only encourages more of the same); they cease their behavior only when they are held accountable for their behavior, when they must take take responsiblity for their own choices and asked to examine the result of their choices. It’s entirely possible to express empathy with them while still holding them accountable. It’s done all the time with alcoholics and drug addicts, self-harmers, etc.

    But what some feminists keep wanting to do, which of course they are totally entitled, is to make a special snowflake class out of transgendered individuals whereby no accountability is required. And by the same token, some feminists prefer to give these empowered non-coerced funfem prostitutes oodles of freaking sympathy without ever once holding them accountable for the choices they choose to make. And then feminists wonder why they never stop… In the meantime, five, count them, FIVE, radical feminists have made a tremendous amount of headway with hundreds, thousands of trangendered people by refusing to swallow their hair-brained excuses. Those are extremely good odds — I notice those, and I notice how it was accomplished.

  42. January 5, 2011 10:27 am

    @Miss Andrist, no apologies needed it’s all good 🙂

  43. January 5, 2011 10:33 am

    Women have “harrowing calamities” going down in their lives every damn day and the entire WORLD glosses right over them. So, you know, stfu.

    GOD NO SHIT. thanks to everyone who called this one out, i meant to laugh hysterically at it but never got aorund to it. consider it laughed at.

    i am reading the “agency” stuff with much interest and am still digesting. BUT i wanted to just interject something about assuming that prostituted women arent religious. DONT. i mean, as an initial matter, what about countries where pretty much EVERYONE is catholic or muslim or whatever. are we supposed to believe that only the atheists are hooking? because i dont think this is the case, at all. how could it be?

    shelley lubben is VERY religious, conservative christian in fact, and i dont think this was a come-to-jesus situation, although shes certainly more vocal about the religious stuff now that shes out of the busienss. i actually suspect this is one reason that drug and alcohol use is so rampant in the industry, because there ARE women out there doing this who are EXTREMELY religious, or even just kind of religious, and hooking or making porn or whatever goes against everything they believe, and they are doing it anyway. and i think this is ONE reason that this is all so damaging and so sick, because the “actors” and prostitutes are walking around like fucking zombies, self-medicating, self-loathing, and honestly, truly believing that they are going to HELL for what they are doing.

    and the pornstitution/fun-fem/mainstream response is “welp! thats a small price (FOR YOU) to pay, so that *i* can fully realize *my* sexuality!” and there are women actually thinking that the sky-daddy is watching them and judging them for making porn. there is a complete lack of concern for these women and THEIR beliefs about their immortal souls. who cares?

    as an atheist myself, its not my greatest joy to cater to anyones religious beliefs…but look at how damaging this all is. FOR ORGASMS. thats the thing. the cost/benefit analysis fails here in so many ways, and NOT just because the cost to the actors and hookers is so high. its also that the alleged pay-off, ORGASMS, isnt really that valuable. (GASP!) NO, ITS NOT. men dont even care about orgasms that much anyway. if they did, they would be more open to non-PIV centered sex acts. but they arent. so what is this all about? clearly, the payout for a large segment of users IS the misogyny of it. the harm. but for the fun-fem pornstitution crowd who at least PRETEND to care about the women though (or at least claim not to hate them)…THEIR alleged payout IS just orgasms. which is so petty and trite it makes me want to fucking throw up.

  44. January 5, 2011 11:52 am

    was to ask, “what kind of idiot completes a pregnancy and keeps the kid, under those conditions”? I mean, really. We know they’re not religious because if they had been, then they probably wouldn’t have entered prostitution. So obeying the fairy sky god’s command to avoid abortion wasn’t the issue. Basically, we have a bunch of patriarchally brainwashed idiots, no job skills in a very expensive town, no ability to recognize that their boyfriend is an asshole, and then they decide to keep the kid with no plan in place to adequately provide for that child. So we’re talking about women who land on the dumb/irresponsible side of the spectrum. Really no wonder they continue to make stupid choices, they already have a pattern of doing so. Unfortunately, this situation appears to be self-selection.

    I dont think young women who have children even though they cant necessarily afford them are idiots. I think a lot of women of any age dont actually realize the full ramifications of motherhood until it’s too late and they’ve got a kid on their hands. Motherhood is mythologized in this society. Most girls are given a doll to play with before they can even walk, and for the rest of her girlhood she will hear the message that having children Is. What. She. Must. Do. It’s no surprise to me that when young women fall pregnant quite a few of them will follow this directive and continue the pregnancy even if they are not in a position to support a child.

    If women are, as you say, brainwashed then shouldnt we be blaming the ones responsible for doing the brainwashing (ie patriarchy, ie men)?

    if we are going to write off women who have absorbed patriarchal lies (lies that have been pounded into their skulls since they day they were born) as irredeemable idiots, then where does that leave feminism? Guess there’s no point bothering with consciousness raising because most women are too stupid anyway! i mean seriously. That’s not cool.

    As I have mentioned, I do think women should be held accountable for being complicit with the patriarchy. For instance – an educated funfem who’s read The Beauty Myth and understands it, yet opts for breast implants anyway. Bring on the accountability squad.

    That is not the same as, in contrast, a young woman who falls pregnant at 16, having spent all her life growing up in a community where women have babies at 16, and being told all her life by media/culture/society that making babies is the pinnacle of achievement for women and who cannot even comprehend an alternative life. So not the same.

  45. January 5, 2011 1:01 pm

    If the reason most of these empowered funfems get into prostitution is because they’re trying to provide for their child,,

    Hang on. None of the mothers were empowered funfem types.

    In fact, none of the women I met at these brothels were. Even the women who came closest to fitting the funfem bill – middle class, childless, educated, those with genuine job alternatives, well even THEY werent proponents of the funfem view – that sex work is empowering, a viable career choice, something that allows them to express their sexuality and validate their agency etc etc.

    Everyone who’d worked there longer than a week acknowledged as a matter of course that hooking is a shitty gig which fucks with your head. The ones who thought it was great thought it was great because of the money, not because of any mythical empowerment (and they still thought it was a shitty gig). The middle class women would spend their downtime telling me all about how they couldnt wait to save up enough cash for their europe trip and never have to deal with another crusty john again.

    This is what really bothers me about funfems who advocate prostitution online. They mainly exist ONLINE. Not in actual places of prostitution. If your impression of the industry came from the feminist blogosphere you would think that brothels are full of perky undergrads who use the word “agency” a lot, subscribe to feministing, and express terrible sorrow on transgender remembrance day.

    But it is so not the case. It’s a myth.

    And it is a really troubling myth. Because I reckon a lot of funfems have never even met any (out) prostitutes and have NO IDEA about the reality. Instead they simply see what the majority viewpoint is on the feminist internet – agency, empowerment etc – and they assume that this is representative of what the average “sex worker” feels about “sex work”. And then they start repeating it and it keeps spreading like a virus.

    When it comes down to it, empowered sex work advocates are the vocal majority ONLINE. But in actual, you know, brothels, they are such a tiny minority they’re pretty much nonexistent.

  46. January 5, 2011 2:01 pm

    Why am I getting the feeling that all this empowerfulment and agency bullshit is really just to completely justify their nigels porn habit, and het partnerships generally? Seriously. If none of them are hooking themselves, what other possible explanation is there for any of this? This is just more of the same, a covert “lesbians and spinsters are gross” meme that primes women for piv, and quells the screaming inside “modern” women’s minds, because their relationships with men resemble prostitution in a very fundamental way.

  47. January 5, 2011 2:35 pm

    It’s an interesting question – where all this agency/empowerment crap comes from.

    Has there ever been another time in history where women have advocated for prostitution and defended it?

    And if not, then why now?

  48. January 5, 2011 2:38 pm

    @gallusmag
    My fave quote from a commenter on Feministing:
    “I’m having attention-span issues right now and can’t read the whole post, but I want to say I’m really glad you channeled your emotions into this awesome-looking post”.
    The post looks awesome! There are words! They look awesome! *snicker*

    Hahaha

    I probably should start reading feministing, just for the comedy

  49. Sargassosea permalink
    January 5, 2011 4:46 pm

    ‘…quells the screaming inside “modern” women’s minds, because their relationships with men resemble prostitution in a very fundamental way.’

    That is just exactly the nail on the head and frankly it scares me to think about what is considered *required sex* these days.

    “It’s an interesting question – where all this agency/empowerment crap comes from.”

    I am coming to the conclusion that the funfems/pozzies have ZERO idea what they’re talking about because they have ZERO life experience. I mean aren’t the vast majority of the “vocal minority” middle-class college kids who are picking up this mythology from their liver-lipped Gendur Studeez man-fessors? Real ’grown-up’ life has a way of teaching facts in the hardest way possible. Kinda makes my heart break for them that one day they‘ll have to make the choice to either keep on truckin’ with the lying to themselves (we tried to warn you!) or to join those of us who operate in the real world.

  50. Sargassosea permalink
    January 5, 2011 5:54 pm

    “So we’re talking about women who land on the dumb/irresponsible side of the spectrum. Really no wonder they continue to make stupid choices, they already have a pattern of doing so. Unfortunately, this situation appears to be self-selection.”

    Wow, m Andrea. I am taking pretty serious offense, both personally and politically, to those 3 sentences.

    Personally:
    The first time I was pregnant I was attending college in one of the most expensive cities in the world. Yes, I did make the decision to stop the damage that was being done to my body/life, but I felt *free* to do so because I had access to $$$ and abortion providers. Perhaps more importantly, motherhood was not fetishized in my family.

    The second time I was pregnant I was working (in my field of study) in a different most-expensive-city in the world. I made the decision to NOT terminate. Everyone wanted me to abort, especially the sperm donor. When I became very, very ill due to the pregnancy (duh) said donor split on vacation and left me in the care of his “other girlfriend“. I ended up terminating in self-defense. Of course, now I’m sooo grateful it turned out that way because my life would have been drastically, DRASTICALLY different.

    (The third time I was pregnant? Well, that’s a Lesbian Love Story! And not relevant to this subject…)

    Politically:
    You should know that is not at all kosher to question ANY woman’s intelligence and/or her level of *responsible* behavior (both of which are completely male-defined subjective crap, right?) when the whole fucking WORLD ORDER is stacked against her everywhere she turns in the first place.

    In other words: stop blaming the victim. Jezus.

  51. January 5, 2011 6:50 pm

    I think IF the fun fems were really hooking, themselves, then asking WHY they were doing it would be an interesting question. Again, I really suspect that to them, hooking under circumstances that they could somewhat control, wouldn’t be THAT different from their normal het relationships anyway. I am starting to think that’s the entire point in fact.

    BUT. Miska is suggesting, and I think we pretty much already know this, that the somewhat-to-largely controlled fun fem hooking scenario is NOT the normal or average hooking situation, for the average prostitute. But the fun fems don’t care about the average prostitute. Their agenda is completely different, and I think I am starting to figure out what it is. And it has absolutely everything to do with disregarding the harms of het relationships in general, due to the issues that het men bring to the table, always. Namely, men’s porn habit, and insistance on piv under circumstances that resemble a quid pro quo scenario, a barter, if not a flat out sale.

  52. jice permalink
    January 5, 2011 8:48 pm

    These women are the rape industry’s best friends. Miriam sounds as stupid and delusional as men who swear up and down their hookers have orgasms and the women in their porn totes aren’t faking because he can see the pleasure gushing from her eyes.

    http://feministing.com/2011/01/05/review-tristan-taorminos-expert-guide-to-female-orgasms/

    When she talks about different positions that are good for certain types of orgasm, you can see those positions, acted out in real time by the couples starring in the video. They are all porn stars themselves, but their interest in one another is surprisingly genuine–the women were able to pick their costars and the chemistry is evident. Also no faked orgasms here: these women are actually getting off

  53. thebewilderness permalink
    January 6, 2011 1:45 am

    Well of course they are ignorant irresponsible dumb as a stump, m Andrea. They are kids.
    The average entry age in prostitution is 14.
    I was dumb as a stump at 14. Weren’t you?
    I was still pretty bloody stupid at twenty three.
    We, none of us, were always the brilliant adorable feminazis we aspire to be today!!

  54. January 6, 2011 9:09 am

    @jice

    i read that feministing article, and looked at tristan’s website.
    i am fucking mortified that she has the gall to call herself anything than what she is. a pimp and a womon hater.

  55. January 6, 2011 8:28 pm

    Feministing.com is a fucking joke. i was so enraged when I saw that post on sex ‘work’. I couldn’t believe they actually say WORDS are killing these women, o rly? Pretty sure it’s the fucking pimps and johns doing the murdering and raping of women – yet feministing would rather blame the radfems, because we are far worse than any pimp or john.

    I also love their non-revolutionary, uncreative “logo” of the mudflap girl.

    Fuck.

  56. January 7, 2011 1:46 am

    @ Miska

    Here’s the link to the video I did responding to the article:

  57. FAB Libber permalink
    January 7, 2011 1:33 pm

    Brilliant graphics Miska, and what a great blogname too!
    I did not check out the post it referred to, because I do not waste my time reading the garbage on funfem and sexpozzie sites.

    I like thebewilderness’ comment about ‘dumb as stump…they are kids’. So true. I fully admit to doing stupid things at 14, and even later (continued doing some stupid things into my 30s). Frankly, I don’t think women reach adulthood until between 25-30, which is why all this empowerment crap is aimed at the under-30s – to get them trapped in the male system in some way (either with a kid, or as a prostitute, or with no job skills because they were dependent on a male).

  58. rmott62 permalink
    January 10, 2011 10:59 am

    I just wanted to comment about being embedded inside the sex trade – and some thoughts on drugs and religion.

    I am an atheist, but I do not believe in being judgemental about how women and girls mentally survive the horrors of the sex trade. Unless you have been in their shoes, you should judge a porn actress, or women/girl inside a brothel, or street-based prostituted woman having religious beliefs or spirituality. It can the only private space that many prostituted women and girls have.

    As for the suggestion, that is the guilt from religious beliefs that make many women and girls inside the sex trade become addicts – I find that a blame the victim argument.
    I do not think the “shame” of being inside porn or prostitution, of defying god, of maybe going to hell – that leads to addiction.

    It is having to deal with constant sexual torturing, having to act happy when in pain or wanting to kill yourself. It knowing that your purpose in life is to fuckholes for any and all men that consume porn and or prostitution. It having no opportunity to believe in hope. That is what is the biggest contribution to needing anything that deaden that reality.

    Also, always remember that a great many women and girls inside the sex trade who are addicted were forced onto drugs or other addictions by the profiteers of the sex trade. This is in order they become pliable to the unspeakable acts that men demand and other men make a profit from. If they are addicted, it become easier to trap them in the sex trade or have a financial hold on them.

    What is amazing for me, is that some women and girls in the sex trade have the mental strength not to have addictions – whether drink/drugs, religious beliefs or addicted to self-harm. Please be very careful about judging.

  59. January 20, 2011 5:45 am

    @RMott:

    Agree 100% with Rebecca. Women in prostitution, porn deserve every fucking break imaginable. We were raped FOR A LIVING. Imagine getting up in the morning, getting ready for work, knowing your job is to be raped. Drugs? The most commonly abused drugs in the porn industry are Vicoden and Xanax. Painkillers (being gang-raped by two hundred men is comparable to being run over by a fucking car, except in slow motion) and happy pills (because suicide becomes a frighteningly logical option when you realize the grave is the only place you truly can never be hurt again.) What kind of self-hatred gets in your head when the entire world agrees that it’s okay for men to do to this to you? That it’s what you’re for and you have nothing else of any value to anyone to offer?

    And women who are in these situations who insist that it is empowering? Cut them some fucking slack, too. Denial is a defense mechanism. It blows my mind that people who condemn women for denial fail to recognize the defensive, self-protective nature of it.

    -Miss Andrist
    Lover of Men

  60. January 20, 2011 1:27 pm

    And women who are in these situations who insist that it is empowering? Cut them some fucking slack, too. Denial is a defense mechanism.

    Agree.

    It’s a coping strategy. But the so called feminists who have never engaged in any kind of prostitution but who still insist it is empowering, well, they can go to hell on the other hand.

  61. rmott62 permalink
    January 20, 2011 7:36 pm

    Thanks Miss Andrist – that is the bottom “we get raped for a living” – that those women who make excuses for the sex trade refuse to acknowledge.

    Women like me, will and do speak out about what it was to be that object that is not only raped on a regular basis – but more often than sexually and mentally tortured. That is what it is to be inside porn and or prostitution
    That is what they consciously make the choice to turn away from – so yeah, they can rot in hell – especially if they have the nerve to claim they are feminists.
    Feminism is not about abandoning a whole class of women and girls to industrial rape, sexual torture, mental abuse, brainwashing, physical violence and murder. If feminists make the choice to abandoned the prostituted class – then what the hell is the point of feminism.

    Sorry I’m so angry, but I so sick of women lessening my reality.

    Miss Andrist – I lost your email address coz my computer is stupid, which is why I been out of touch.

  62. Feuerwerferin permalink
    January 24, 2011 5:14 pm

    We all should submit ourselves to sexual power! It will make us study mathematics and physics, it will abolish the pay gap and protect us from male violence! Just imagine:
    A woman is theatend by her husband and he wants to beat her. She just shows her boobs and everything is solved! Her physical strength will increase in an instant. Equally when a woman is about to be stoned in a Muslim country. She should just lok sexy and satisfy herself and she’ll be fine! Because that makes so much sense! Of course women who can’t have orgasms won’t achieve anything in their lives.
    So: If a woman wants to persue a career, she jst should climax more and and she will become the president of her respective country (no matter what her qualifications are), lead a huge company or fly to Mars.
    But wait… This reminds me of something…I can’t put the finger on it though… But being able to use one’s brain is surely great!

    I hope that I didn’t go to far with my sarcasm. Sorry, if I did.

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