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this is Modern Feminism

February 12, 2011

In light of the amazing and incredible anti-feminist feminism I have been seeing around the internet of late, I have decided to start a new series.

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64 Comments leave one →
  1. February 12, 2011 9:53 am

    Also, I mentioned over at FCMs that I have just finished reading Dale Spender’s Man Made Language. So this week Ive been thinking a lot about the inherent misogyny in language.

    What evie really means in her quote is “how come female women get to define womanhood”.

    “Cis” is just a stand-in word for biological sex. But it conveniently invisibilizes which sex. It invisibilizes femaleness. It literally erases it. Which means it also erases female oppression.

    But you know. This is MODERN FEMINISM.

  2. yesindeed permalink
    February 12, 2011 10:35 am

    oh, how this made me laugh. I actually felt physically ill upon reading that comment over at IBTK, so thanks for giving it its own post.

    Indeed, why should women define womanhood? Men, who are inherently better at everything — up to and including being women — should clearly be at the helm in this department.

  3. yesindeed permalink
    February 12, 2011 10:42 am

    Of course, if “womanhood” is understood as the male-authored minstrel show known as “femininity”, then men really would be inherently better at it — they created it, after all!

  4. evie permalink
    February 12, 2011 11:52 am

    Lol. I’m famous! Thanks. Nice blog.

    You don’t think there might be a bit of circularity going on in that argument? By arguing that only people within a category get to define that category, you’ve already delimited that category; you’ve pre-empted the defining.

    It’s like someone who believes that the essential condition of womanhood is heterosexuality arguing that only het women get to define womanhood. Or white women. Or fertile women. Or Christian women. Or non-intersex women. Or numerous other examples where people were defined as less than women because their experience of womanhood was *too* different.

    Ok, so you say, but this time, it really is too different, due to socialisation, they’re unimpregnable etc. So I say, let’s talk to them, let’s find out what their experiences are, of, say, sexist street harassment, sexist employment discrimination, rape, domestic abuse, sexist objectification, and actually, female socialisation (because if they were aware of their identity from youth, they picked up a decent helping of that, too). Not to mention their experiences of prejudices against lesbians, women of colour, women with disabilities etc (for those who also have those identities). And ooh look, their experiences are actually pretty similar to ours! Especially if they have socially transitioned for any length of time at all.

    And that’s why lots of them want to join our beautiful patriarchy-blaming bandwaggon. Because even as the patriarchy denies that they’re women, it hits them with a whole lot of the same stuff it hits cis women with.

    I’m sorry, I’m being sarcastic because I’m a bit pissed off. Yes, having a working uterus counts for something, of course it does. I work in a rape crisis centre, I know how this shit works. But the patriarchy has been using that as the criterion for womanhood for long enough for me to be suspicious of it.

  5. FAB Libber permalink
    February 12, 2011 11:56 am

    “Cis” is just a stand-in word for biological sex. But it conveniently invisibilizes which sex. It invisibilizes femaleness. It literally erases it. Which means it also erases female oppression.

    Very much nail-hammer-bang there Miska. I actually “went off on one” at a male ally the other day for calling us FAABs “cis”. He still didn’t get it in the end, so I gave up. Basically I said it was completely offensive for him to refer to us FAABs, the actual default category of ‘woman’ as “cis-“. Why should we (FAABs), the default, have to have the prefix – it is the Mary-cum-latelys that should get lumbered with a prefix. But there you go, tis menz again trying to set the rules, define us, etc. My response is “fuck off, I am a person in my own right, and I do not need men to define me”.

    Also excellent points, yesindeed.

    My gawd all this ‘modern feminsm’ and pomo crap is tiring. But, that is also part of the strategy, keep radfems busy unravelling all this crap, and nothing really fundamental gets changed.

  6. February 12, 2011 1:53 pm

    Males have always defined womanhood for female people.

    Feminism came along and gave female people the potential to define womanhood for ourselves, for the first time ever.

    Now certain males (trans) claim they are entitled to define womanhood for female people.

    And certain so-called feminists argue in favor of this.

    This is what the post is about. This is what needs to be addressed. But evie is apparently incapable of doing so. Instead she bangs out a paragraph of pomo-feelings-lived-experience-male-exceptionalism shit and MISSES THE POINT ENTIRELY. But, whatever. This is what constitutes modern feminism now, apparently.

  7. February 12, 2011 1:59 pm

    And I wont publish any other evie-style comments. Any detractors need to first explain why males (ANY MALES. AT ALL) are entitled to define womanhood for female people, in light of history whereby males have always done this, and the goal of feminism which has always been to transcend male definitions.

    Explain this first.

    Then we can start talking about the feelings-lived-experience-pomo shit.

  8. February 12, 2011 2:10 pm

    It’s like someone who believes that the essential condition of womanhood is heterosexuality arguing that only het women get to define womanhood

    is this is joke?

    the “essential condition of womanhood” is that one be born-female. or FAAB, if you will. its the ONLY condition of it actually.

    what a great idea for a series miska! excellent!

  9. February 12, 2011 2:13 pm

    also, YES to cis = stand-in-for-biological-sex. absolutely. good catch. i have spenders book too and will be getting around to reading it shortly. mary daly also talks about de-coding patriarchy and patriarchal writing, and its very true that this shit is written in code. feminists are cracking the code, and exposing all this cryptic shit for what it really is. its terrific.

  10. rhondda permalink
    February 12, 2011 3:02 pm

    If I may suggest a couple of more books that may be unfamiliar to some, possibly because they are Canadian rad fems.
    Nothing Mat(t)er: A Feminist Critique of Postmodernism by Somer Brodribb. She is quite funny. The other one is The Politics of Reproduction by Mary O’Brien. It is more socialist, but she talks about how Marx forgot the means of reproduction and traces male alienation back to the Greeks and the beginning of male abstraction (appropriation) of life. I just wanted to get names of women writers out there because they are our heritage and are being lost in the subliminal sea of post modernism.

  11. FAB Libber permalink
    February 12, 2011 3:14 pm

    also, YES to cis = stand-in-for-biological-sex. absolutely. good catch.

    It absolutely was a good catch!

    It shows the reason why the trans-activists will NEVER use it, and use cis- instead. Using “biological [sexed]” woman spells out clearly what is going on, and it is not hidden in pseudo academic terms. It becomes hard (for transactivists) to argue that biologically sexed women are exactly the same as chemically/surgically altered ‘women’. A two-year-old should be able to deduce that they are not. Of course, the other transactivist argument goes along the lines of “transwomen are exactly the same as faab women … but but but, transwomen are special snowflakes [so not the same] and should outrank faab women”. They take themselves seriously with all these contradictions.

    Sadly, Man Made Language was one of the two Dale Spender books I loaned out about 20 years ago, and never got back. So I don’t loan books now.

  12. Sargassosea permalink
    February 12, 2011 4:37 pm

    THIS is Modern Feminism too:

    “You might argue at best that third-wave has a slightly higher threshold of pornulation, but that shit is par for the course – the second wave was a boatload more enpornulated than the first wave, but I’d still call it an improved model.” – Triste

    Fer shure! And totally! OMG!

  13. Sargassosea permalink
    February 12, 2011 4:40 pm

    Like you said before at IBTK, Miska:

    I come for the trans debate, but I stay for the stupid. (or something very close to that :))

  14. Sargassosea permalink
    February 12, 2011 4:44 pm

    I guess this means that the second wavers are responsible for everyone’s (even trans*women’s)”enpornulation”? Or was it the first wavers?

    Well, anyway, it’s all feminists’ fault that porn exists!!1!

  15. February 12, 2011 7:56 pm

    I found a very disturbing tranny website, I was wondering if I could post it to see if anyone else here has seen it and what you think about it. Is there an appropriate place for that? I didn’t want to derail the post. Thank you.

  16. February 12, 2011 8:31 pm

    I’m glad I found your blog via IBTP/K/Whatever, you are insightful and hilarious.
    I see a lot of parallels with transsexualism and “transablism” or Body Integrity Identity Disorder. Do I doubt that some people genuinely want very badly to have a limb amputated or be deaf or blind and feel that this is an integral part of their identity and experience distress as a result of being able bodied? No. At the same time, would anybody question a person who is or became deaf, blind, an amputee, etc through no CHOICE of their own, taking serious issue with the “transabled”? I can’t imagine the same reaction frankly, yet we expect females to just accept that transsexualism is okay — the oppressor class defining and appropriating the experience of the oppressed.

  17. joy permalink
    February 13, 2011 12:08 am

    Also, I’m tired of pomos assuming that everyone who isn’t on the trans happyfuntime!! train is just ignorant or uninformed.

    I’m personally really fucking informed about trans; I’m one of the people the medical establishment wanted badly to “become” trans (ie, an asskicking, unsubmissive woman), so I even have firsthand experience on top of the subsequent blog- and book-research.
    Plenty of other FAABs have similar and greater levels of expertise. We ARE informed — that’s why we’re NOT buying what’s being sold.

    So much for “lived experience” when it doesn’t toe the establishment-pleasing, male-placating, status-quo-enforcing line. Which is why pomo is a heapload of bullshit.

  18. FAB Libber permalink
    February 13, 2011 12:14 am

    I only went and read the IBTP thread tonight. Well done Miska, Sar, mAndrea and delphyne (there were others too).

    As for the rest, teh stoopid, it burns!

  19. February 13, 2011 12:30 am

    @E

    You might be interested in reading this discussion about transableism on my other blog.

    http://fabmatters.wordpress.com/2009/11/13/the-transabled/

    @CG

    You can post the link

  20. February 13, 2011 12:48 am

    @fablibber

    It shows the reason why the trans-activists will NEVER use it, and use cis- instead. Using “biological [sexed]” woman spells out clearly what is going on, and it is not hidden in pseudo academic terms. It becomes hard (for transactivists) to argue that biologically sexed women are exactly the same as chemically/surgically altered ‘women’. A two-year-old should be able to deduce that they are not.

    indeed, and two years olds DO deduce it. The final joke is on trans, because when it comes down to it to the vast majority of the world’s population equate Male with Man, and Female with Woman. It’s only in queer academia and the feminist internet where the concepts of “Cis” and “gender identity” are even understood let alone used. I am planning a post on this for my other blog at some point.

    It’s why a lot of the arguments over cis and cis privilege are basically a waste of time for feminists, I guess. Because at the end of the day, who cares about this stuff anyway? Most people dont even understand it. It’s a nice little diversionary tactic on the behalf of patriarchy – get feminists arguing over something largely irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

  21. FAB Libber permalink
    February 13, 2011 1:00 am

    It’s a nice little diversionary tactic on the behalf of patriarchy – get feminists arguing over something largely irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

    Presactly right. It’s also why I don’t bother going into ‘mixed’ threads like the current one going on. I barely have the patience to read the moronic arguments, let alone take the time and dissect it point by point.

    I was tempted to jump in at IBTP, there were a few really bald-faced lies going on. One of the comments said that trans only ever used the “I feel like a woman, therefore I am a woman” stance to doctors to get SRS. Utter bullshit. When they first crashed onto the internet scene, all the trans would ever use as their main ‘argument’ was that they “always felt like a woman”. I used to take the piss out of them for claiming ridiculous ages like two and four. FFS, I, an FAAB did NOT “feel like a woman” at two or four. So it was a lie that trans only ever used that argument to doctors. Last time I checked, radfems were not offering SRS. Liars.

    Actually, re-writing history is a very MAAB thing to do.
    mmmm? anyone see any connection?

  22. February 13, 2011 1:01 am

    @ Joy

    Yes it bothers me how any disagreement by feminists are assumed to be based on ignorance. As if we havent thought about this a great deal and followed all the threads back to their logical conclusions. Or, like in your case, have actually had first hand experience with the medical establishment re trans. We shouldnt forget that transition is primarily a medical phenomenon.

    Meanwhile it becomes clear that the allies have not thought about any of this at all, and they’re just regurgitating whatever they saw on Questioning Transphobia.

  23. Jilla permalink
    February 13, 2011 3:10 am

    The bleeding obvious: Men, no matter how much lippy they wear, don’t have a DIFFERENT experience of women hood. They don’t have ANY.

    This blog has become polluted.

  24. thebewilderness permalink
    February 13, 2011 3:19 am

    Books!!
    Caliban and the Witch is very good and excellent. It reports on the prompts for taking the next step in the degradation of women in this 3000 year war for dominance men have waged to crown the penis the one and only god. The period after the plague drastically reduced the population in western europe.

    Women of ideas and what men have done to them. The title speaks for itself.

    Women, Church, and State. This is what we call a first wave book.

    Those were some of my favorites.
    Man made language was excellent! I’ve said it a million times and someone needs to tell the peeps on that thread at IBTP, the words matter!! The definition of the words need to be commonly held or we will lose the ability to communicate. Which is what happened on that thread.

  25. February 13, 2011 12:32 pm

    Thank fuck your comments got through there Mishka, I cannot believe that Twisty would want to have any part of the trans-cult, I think Lishra of Against All Evidence sums things up pretty nicely with:

    Thanks for your comment, Cerien. The whole “I *earned* my female pronoun” thing is really insulting. It totally erases all the harms done to people assigned that pronoun from birth. ‘She’ is experienced by those people as oppression, not an accomplishment. Also, I wouldn’t congratulate a woman who became an executive for an oil company just because she worked super hard to get to that position… she’d still be participating in a really awful, harmful system, so I’m going to call that out.

    http://againstallevidence.wordpress.com/2011/01/06/in-which-i-announce-i-am-transphobic/

  26. February 13, 2011 12:40 pm

    i think they are projecting with all this “ignorance” business. seriously. the transwomen are doing what all “feminist men” do with feminism, which is to go through the motions of it, imitating it, but without really understanding it, at all. with trans theres an extra layer to the imitativeness isnt there, with them imitating femaleness itself…

    thus, we have things like “dog privilege” uh i mean cis-privilege coming up…becuase men see that an accusation of “privilege” is the equivilent of going nuclear, and they want to go nuclear toooo!!!!111!!111 they dont get that male privilege is a real thing, just that its a useful thing, to bandy about. and “you hurt my feelings, therefore you are an asshole” is what femininsm is to them, because its all they are able to glean from womens complaints about men. not that they are perpetrating real, deomstrable harms on women, just that the women are fucking complaining about it, and their feelings appear to be hurt. you know, or something.

    its really obvious isnt it?

  27. Mary Sunshine permalink
    February 13, 2011 1:19 pm

    Late to the party: what does IBTK stand for?

  28. delphyne permalink
    February 13, 2011 1:41 pm

    I Blame the Kyiararchy

    I’m getting moderated at IBTK now. Hope you don’t mind me posting here:

    “What’s frightening is Serano boasting about using his dick to fuck women into “lesbianism” – an erasure of women (women don’t have dicks) and an erasure of lesbians (you don’t become a lesbian by being fucked by a peeniiiss).

    You’re shooting the messenger, Charity.

    The problem is women accepting this BS from men like Serano, not women pointing it out.”

  29. FAB Libber permalink
    February 13, 2011 2:17 pm

    Serano was certainly proud of his penis in that clip you linked to delphyne. How many times did he mention it?!

    Surely (rational sane) people could at, the very least, agree that “women do NOT have penises”? Biology-101.

  30. maggie permalink
    February 13, 2011 2:49 pm

    This from The Sun, a rag red top newspaper in the UK. They don’t mince words. Possible trigger warning.

    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article33938.ece

    Shocking story for two reasons. Tax payers paid for the transitions and he was moved to a women’s prison.

  31. maggie permalink
    February 13, 2011 2:55 pm

    RE: John Pilley Kidnapper linked in last post. The most shocking aspect was his crime against the woman he attacked. It was considered so severe he got life.

  32. February 13, 2011 3:01 pm

    yes, the only people who “missed the point” of the serano video were the ones who missed the fact that he mentioned his dick about a thousand times. it was a video, ABOUT HIS DICK. hello! that *was* the point. and transwomen always do this, and they never seem to see what they are doing (or they deny it vehemently when its pointed out). at some point, they WILL mention their penis. its inevitable. and the fact that they KNOW we dont want to hear about it probably contributes to their insisting to do it.

  33. maggie permalink
    February 13, 2011 3:36 pm

    I too noticed that FCM and I found the whole tirade about his dick hard to listen to. I got bored after about a minute. Funny that. Because that’s how I feel about PIV too. Neat.

  34. FAB Libber permalink
    February 13, 2011 4:49 pm

    I gather that the Serano video was meant to be ‘ironic’, coming from the “body parts don’t matter, it’s how you define yourself” school of tranz BS thought.

    The video was actually anything but. It was revealing and telling, primarily about the TW attitudes towards lesbians & FAABs. As delphyne pointed out, it was a complete and utter slap across the face to lesbianism. Serano could not help but brag that his magic penis would turn het women lesbian and lesbian women het. So the actual truth behind the supposed irony was indeed disturbing. The disturbing element was that it was clear that Serano had no respect for women’s boundries. And, it is hardly the type of attitude that shows he is ‘one of us’, when he is exhibiting the exact behaviour that all other men do – lack of respect for women’s boundaries. I would even guess that Serano feels very proud, nay, cock-sure, of himself, that he has tricked (primarily lesbians) into sleeping with him, and tah-dah! ‘lesbian’ with penis! That video was as much of a brag as anything else.

    And TWs wonder why we won’t let them play in our FAAB-only club houses?!
    Call the video: Exhibit A.

  35. FAB Libber permalink
    February 13, 2011 4:56 pm

    And a big LOL to myself, for using “cock sure”.

    Using ‘cocksure’ in a sentence: £3
    Using ‘cocksure’ in a sentence about men: £25
    Using ‘cocksure’ in a sentence about TWs: priceless

    😛

  36. February 13, 2011 8:42 pm

    Miska, thank you, the site is fauxwhore (dot) com.

    At first, I honestly wasn’t sure if the woman hating stuff on there was supposed to be a joke or satire or something, that’s what I wanted to ask all you fellow radscum about. But actually, it soon became clear from google searches that this “fauxwhore” person posts anti-woman BS on MRA websites, among other things. I think the most disturbing post on the site is the craigslist suicide note. Apparently “feeling like a woman” means wanting to be raped and hung by a stranger you meet in the casual encounters section.

    I have had some major issues with trans-activism and its insistence on upholding the gender binary system for quite some time, but this is honestly the first time I have ever come across a tranny who is obviously just trying to use his pseudo-female body as a living sex doll with which to act out submissive (and in his case, snuff related) fantasies. I had heard about it, but not seen it. I think I had some idea that those people didn’t really consider themselves trans*, but wooooodoggie was I wrong.

    Honestly, at this point, I could use a(very hot) shower and a just a bit of knowledge that I’m not the only one who has seen, and is totally disturbed by this woman hating individual.

  37. thebewilderness permalink
    February 13, 2011 9:37 pm

    I think this is a horrid thing to say, but I’m thinking it so I may as well say it.
    Do you recall the bit in the book and movie “Silence of the Lambs” when he asks Starling to think about when do you begin to hate what you covet?
    That always makes me think of female impersonators and the whole trans activists anger, possibly hatred, toward women. Hatred is a pretty strong emotion regardless of how trivialized the word has become in this age of man. In this case it is based on six serial killers of women. Three of whom coveted.

    This bizarre attitude that “I am a woman if I say I am a woman and pay no attention to that dick I’m trying to stick into you” is the ultimate pomo achievement in cognitive dissonance.

  38. FAB Libber permalink
    February 13, 2011 10:57 pm

    when he asks Starling to think about when do you begin to hate what you covet?
    That always makes me think of female impersonators and the whole trans activists anger, possibly hatred, toward women.

    If I may tweak, it does not seem that the anger/hatred is due to coveting ‘womanhood’, but the anger/hate is directed to those that automatically/already HAVE it (FAABs). Envy in other words.

  39. Jilla permalink
    February 13, 2011 11:58 pm

    Cocksure. Perfect. You’ve nailed it for trans generally. Whether they’ve still got one or not, I think “cock” is in the brain don’t you, kind of like the way they want to say being a woman is in the brain? Braincock. Cocksure. That’s how I’m going to id transwoMEN from now on.

  40. Jilla permalink
    February 14, 2011 12:01 am

    I think I would like to see a MiskaGraphic of braincock. I think it’s probably right over where the reasoning lobe should be.

  41. February 14, 2011 12:28 am

    Ugh. Serano. I dont care what twisty says, monologuing about one’s penis is a dude thing. Only a dude would think a bunch of strangers in an audience want to hear about his genitals. This is about as much an example of authentic womanhood as prostate cancer is.

  42. February 14, 2011 12:40 am

    If I may tweak, it does not seem that the anger/hatred is due to coveting ‘womanhood’, but the anger/hate is directed to those that automatically/already HAVE it (FAABs). Envy in other words.

    I think lot of transwomen do envy real women. They make that abundantly clear in much of what they write about us. But I also think a lot of transwomen associate womanhood with masochism, and their goal is not only to “become a woman”, it’s to become a woman who is tormented/abused by men in very specific ways, because the idea of that turns them on. They get off on it. The site that CG linked to is a good example of this. At least this particular tranny is honest:

    Magdelyn presents a woman’s point of view from a man’s perspective. A Whore College Alumnus, Maggie is a self hating, self destructive, profoundly lonely, stupid broad. — I walk the darkest streets on the coldest nights in San Francisco. I’ve been offered drugs, money for sex, been molested, sexually assaulted, followed, grabbed, cornered, pushed into a wall, and held from behind while cars passed (noone stopped to help me). I’ve been called a bitch and a whore. I’m not a woman. I don’t have the fear needed to survive as a woman. One day I will get killed someplace where I didn’t belong – somewhere on the streets of San Francisco.

    That’s all any male can ever experience – a woman’s point of view from a man’s perspective.

  43. thebewilderness permalink
    February 14, 2011 12:48 am

    Yes, covetousness as in envy of those who have what you do not. So they made a womanskin for themselves. Sorry I was not clear.
    It is the age old male envy of womans ability to bring life, only with a twist.

  44. Sargassosea permalink
    February 14, 2011 4:43 am

    “…when do you begin to hate what you covet?”

    When you‘re a maab and can‘t have it no matter what it is even when it is *being* a woman.

    The fetishization is terrifying to say the least.

  45. February 14, 2011 6:57 am

    They moderated my comment:

    “After you all exterminate the 300,000 trans women in the world (since you love Mary Daly’s murderous quotes given by Zoe, above, I figure this is your goal)
    ————————————

    Please outline what is murderous about Daly’s speculation that evolution would decrease maleness in humans for the survival of the planet. How is speculating on natural evolutionary processes “murderous” ? She was right, btw. We now know that the Y chromosome is rapidly degrading and may in fact be on it’s way to extinction. Does that mean evolution itself is “murderous”?
    Reading comprehension fail Deadhead. Way to project your own genocidal fantasies.”

  46. February 14, 2011 8:10 am

    Holy shit Serano is such a fucking man. That rant is so fucking male ‘ME ME ME MY PENIS’ –he’s operating on such a caricature level of how womyn speak it’s just fucking ludicrous. Also, Serano, YOU ARE NOT A LESBIAN.

    “..survive a night in the sack with me..”

    If that’s not rapists language, I don’t fucking know what is.

    I’d never seen this arsehole before that video, and now I wish I didn’t smoke all my stash so I could blaze it out of my brain.

    Ugh. Serano. I dont care what twisty says, monologuing about one’s penis is a dude thing. Only a dude would think a bunch of strangers in an audience want to hear about his genitals. This is about as much an example of authentic womanhood as prostate cancer is.

    Word.

  47. FAB Libber permalink
    February 14, 2011 9:01 am

    If that’s not rapists language, I don’t fucking know what is.

    Very much so. Which was in part my comment about males not respecting the boundaries of females; rapist mentality.

    Trans out themselves with their misogyny. The Feminist Lite and Funfems don’t see it for what it is, a trojan horse.

    It would be different case if TWs came onto the feminist scene and said “what can we do to help the feminist movement?”. But no, they came onto the scene and said “we are women, just like you, but we are special snowflakes and more important women than you, so you have to solve OUR problems first in feminism, then we will get around to the other stuff, m’kay?” Sorry. No dice. That is exactly what men have been doing in every single movement, then when the movement achieves its goals, the women are sent back into the kitchen. They think we were born yesterday.

  48. February 14, 2011 10:38 am

    Sorry FAB must not have caught that bit of your comment! Totally agree with it though.

    It would be different case if TWs came onto the feminist scene and said “what can we do to help the feminist movement?”. But no, they came onto the scene and said “we are women, just like you, but we are special snowflakes and more important women than you, so you have to solve OUR problems first in feminism, then we will get around to the other stuff, m’kay?” Sorry. No dice. That is exactly what men have been doing in every single movement, then when the movement achieves its goals, the women are sent back into the kitchen. They think we were born yesterday.

    Yes, yes yes, this a hundred times. This is exactly what I’ve seen IRL and online from them and their cohorts, thank you for articulating so well 😉

    Daly & Raymond’s predictions about them were certainly right.
    I know Z.Budapest doesn’t allow trannies into Dianic Circles either/to learn about Dianic Wicca, I can’t really think of too many well-known (in male stream circles anyway) who are critical of the trans movement.

  49. FAB Libber permalink
    February 14, 2011 11:15 am

    Sorry FAB must not have caught that bit of your comment!

    My fault really, as in I did not finish the thought-trail from “not respecting [women’s] boundaries” to “rapist mentality”. Night follows day.

    But, you got there on your own anyway. 😉

  50. February 14, 2011 1:01 pm

    “After you all exterminate the 300,000 trans women in the world (since you love Mary Daly’s murderous quotes given by Zoe, above, I figure this is your goal)

    What kind of ridiculous hyperbole is this?

    Wow, a funfem deliberately misinterpreting radical feminist quotes – It’s not like we dont see that every other day or anything.

  51. thebewilderness permalink
    February 14, 2011 11:39 pm

    It speaks ill of the educational system that logical fallacies sprout like dragons teeth whenever people are unable to make a rational argument to support their position.
    Sad, really.

  52. joy permalink
    February 15, 2011 1:08 am

    Again at IBT(K), an (uneducated) (presumably female) commenter asserted that “transwomen must have already had an interest in feminism, or they wouldn’t have transitioned!!!”

    I would love to know what kind of drug she was on, so I could get some. Actually, no, for ignorance is not bliss.

    (Also, I love the neat and tidy way IBT… both allows and disallows ‘personal exxperience!’ from entering the discourse. On one hand, it’s useful to [at least theoretically] keep BDSMers from making the argument that “BDSM is good ‘cuz I likes it” — but it also keeps women from saying, “This other practice [transsexualism] is bad because I and many others have perceived it firsthand as deeply lesbophobic and profoundly misogynistic.”)

  53. joy permalink
    February 16, 2011 2:14 am

    Also, as a clarification:

    Trans-ism creates yet another false dichotomy: if you, as a woman, hate your oppression, that means you’re really an oppressor inside! Because REAL women LOVE their sex-assignment-at-birth-based oppression.

    That’s completely untrue, of course, but it keeps plenty of women away from feminism. And that doesn’t seem accidental.

    The MTFs I’ve met were motivated by male-privilege guilt and/or dissatisfaction with the male gender role. My aunt, who transitioned and had total SRS at midlife, said, “Being a man was too hard. I could never live up to the standards and expectations. Being a woman seemed easier.” (And she recognizes misogyny, but “disagrees with” feminism/women’s liberation. Of course.)

    The entire premise of trans- seems to be that sex is gender, and also that gender roles are natural, good, and unchangeable for everyone. Again, this cannot be accidental, at all.

  54. FAB Libber permalink
    February 16, 2011 3:14 pm

    “Being a man was too hard. I could never live up to the standards and expectations. Being a woman seemed easier.”

    I have a bit of a theory that some MTF transitions are the result of “bigger fish in smaller pond” syndrome – the smaller pond actually being the [perceived] easier pond (failed masculinity). It explains why TWs are not happy with just joining the feminist movement, but taking it over (residual masculinity).

    It comes as a shock to persons like Serano when the ‘easier pond’ is not quite so easy at all.
    Serano:
    “And while I had numerous run-ins and arguments with strange men back when I was male-bodied, I’d never before experienced the enraged venom in their voices and fury in their faces that I sometimes do now-an extreme wrath that some men seem to reserve specifically for women”
    “On an intellectual level, I knew that I would sometimes be dismissed or harassed once I started living as female, but I underestimated just how frustrating and hurtful each one of those instances would be.”

    Probably because they assume that “being a woman” merely involves preoccupations with fashion, make-up and shoes. Most mistake the crappy treatment they receive post-dressups as being because they are trans (and in some cases true, when they do not pass very well). But if they do manage to pass as a woman, they get the bulk-standard misogyny, hate, sexism directed at them as the FAABs do. They just are not the special snowflake ‘women’ as they think they are. Welcome to our crappy pond.

    Having no interest in feminism, post dressups (hey, I am being inclusive of non-SRS ‘women’) is probably indicative of masochism. Certainly there must a level of masochism involved for SRS, hacking off functioning body parts. Not wanting women’s rights to improve the lot of women (when you have become one) is masochism, and resignation to the original failure (self punishment).

  55. Jilla permalink
    February 16, 2011 9:48 pm

    Who would believe that lipstick, f-me shoes, some estrogen and surgery would make them a woman?

    Who but a man, said Nora Ephron about 25 yeas ago.

  56. joy permalink
    February 18, 2011 6:06 pm

    “some MTF transitions are the result of “bigger fish in smaller pond” syndrome – the smaller pond actually being the [perceived] easier pond (failed masculinity).”

    Yes, that seems it exactly! They think they, as men, are automatically much more genius and competent than women, so they can be “the best kind” of women.

    Then they meet other women, and try to interact with women as women (if they pass well). The facade is lifted — women no longer defer to and cow to them-as-men, and then men start treating them terribly as well. Their shock is terrible.

    “Welcome to our crappy pond.”

    Exactly.

  57. thebewilderness permalink
    February 18, 2011 9:30 pm

    I think there may also be a safety aspect to this for some men.
    Most men are not safe to be around for anyone.
    Most women are safe to be around for anyone.
    Easy enough, if you don’t feel safe around men, to think you must be more like women than men.
    I’m not sure it ever occurs to them that in an effort to make themselves more safe they have made themselves less so. If safety is indeed an aspect of transitioning.
    It seems to be for most FTM.

  58. February 18, 2011 11:24 pm

    I dont see fun-fems. All I see are women who deep down inside hate/loathe/despise being female. Shit, they are just like trannies. They want to be men. They covet men and the position of power they hold over them. They dont want to overthrow the oppressor. Equal rights to these fun-fems means having the same power to subjugate and oppress as their male counterparts. They want in.

  59. joy permalink
    February 19, 2011 1:47 am

    Good point, bewilderness. FCM wrote at her place:

    “I think I have shown here that all MAABs are groomed as oppressors, from birth. They are groomed TO cause female-specific harm, based on their perceived ability to cause it. They are groomed to see piv as “sex” and to perpetrate it on as many women as possible. They are groomed to rape. FROM BIRTH. That’s gotta do stuff. Call it a “privilege” if you want to, but it doesn’t change or even affect what it is, and what MAABs are, by definition.”

    I’ve met one or two MAABs who said, “But I don’t rape!! I don’t want to be socially obligated to rape! I don’t want to be seen as Schroedinger’s Rapist anymore! (It’s not faaair!) So I’ll become a woman instead.”

    Obviously this is a logic fail on multiple levels. 1. They’re still Schroedinger’s Rapist, just in FAAB-stereotypical clothing (wolf-in-sheeps’-clothing analogy stretch, it doesn’t work perfectly, sorry!)
    2. A good way to not be a rapist is to, well, not rape.
    3. Acting rapistly by demanding sex with women (specifically lesbians!), demanding access to FAAB-only spaces, and demanding FAAB time and energy is not exactly a good way to not be a rapist.
    4. There is no way to “become a woman.”
    5. The flaw is, logically, in the gender/sex binary and with patriarchy as a system, and we should perhaps (ha!) work on that instead of investing so much time, energy, and money into surgeries and treatments that pad the medical/pharmaceutical industry pockets and perpetuate the very patriarchy.
    6. Etc.

    Ola, yes, women who are not radical feminists/women’s liberationists, women who do not resist, are simply self-hating. I’ve long felt that many of them are only “doing feminism” (even radical feminism) as an intellectual exercise. Witness the IBTP “Blow Job Wars”, Toilet-Scrubbing- and Cleaning-Woman-Gate, and Not-My-Nigel (and its twin What-About-The-PIV!!) Rounds One through Eleventy. They cannot even imagine what it’s like to be free, and don’t want to even try to imagine it. Most of them, I seem to recall, seem to still shave their legs.

  60. February 20, 2011 1:00 am

    The original exchange makes me puke!
    Biology and impregnability are not enough apparently?

    Thanks for these concise gems Miska, the hot pink font color really symbolizes something. Like “femininity”, and/or pornulation for instance.

  61. February 20, 2011 1:07 am

    “Do you recall the bit in the book and movie “Silence of the Lambs” when he asks Starling to think about when do you begin to hate what you covet?
    That always makes me think of female impersonators and the whole trans activists anger, possibly hatred, toward women. ”

    Definitely true in at least some cases, like JDR (who ruined my life, or at least tried to with his propaganda).

    http://questioningtranssexuality.blogspot.com/2011/01/jason-dirk-reitz-lame-ass-pretentious.html

    (I don’t want to publicize my blog as some transtrolls were decrying on Dirt’s blog simply by posting, but in this case I want people to know and be warned who they are fighting against)

  62. Jilla permalink
    February 20, 2011 2:17 pm

    You won’t be the only feminist that’s happened to.

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