EDIT: see the comments for an explanation of why i am posting both versions of this graphic. fascinating!
Simply brilly, Fact dahling!
thanks! i couldnt decide which picture to use…there are so many to choose from.
technical question: which bubble did you read first?
This wedding business is so depressing. People keep asking if I watched it. Yuck! I don’t own a tv, anyhow.
Answer to tech question. I read Kate’s bubble first.
(The black background. Also, left-to-right reading habits.)
i tuned in just as kate was pulling up in her car, and i saw that part through the end of the vows. i posted over at my place “run away, its not too late!” and at the moment i posted it, i wasnt too late. she still couldve (theoretically) changed her mind. of course i knew she wouldnt, but that was literally her last seconds of owning her own personhood. i found the whole thing to be completely traumatizing. poor kate! its fucking horrible. i mean that. this is a big deal, and its so obvious, with his entire family and the entire country standing behind the prince and his PIV entitlement and expectation that she will bear his children…its horrific. i cannot think of a more appropriate word. its a horrifying nightmarish tragedy, is what it is.
I am with SarSea, although I would have said left-to-right, then black background.
I guess those trained on comics would read uppermost first.
That marriage particularly, it is obvious what the deal is, she must consent to PIV and bear heirs. At least she was not the 19yo innocent that Diana was, that was real lamb-to-slaughter.
No Fab she’s regarded as a rather ‘elderly’ 29yrs 😦
I really don’t think this is as horrifying as the total ownership thing that Diana went through – I recall that being vomit inducing, mentioning her virginity and suitability to give birth as if she was some prize filly (in fact I do recall the word ‘filly’ being used). Now this is implied but the message is not so crude. Small steps eh? But no giant leap for womankind.
Somehow I think Kate will fare a little better within the hegemony of world press given that her husband’s mother was hounded literally to her death from the day and hour the engagement was announced. Surely history cannot repeat itself? I certainly hope not. Not that I, a republican (which in the UK means scrap the monarchy and form a constitution), give a hoot about the monarchy but I do care about the commodification of women as objects.
Read Kate’s bubble first. Love the sentiments. It has gone into my little notebook if you don’t mind.
also, i would point out that i dont even give a crap about the consent-analysis on most days. its so banal, and doesnt distinguish AS RAPE most of what would be considered rape, or coercive rape, if anyone were being honest about it! and they arent.
but this one doesnt even pass the smell test, even using the consent-analysis. this FAILS, and is obviously COERCIVE RAPE, even using the fun-fems definiton of it, which they CLAIM includes the right to change your fucking mind, even after youve said yes. she has said yes, i am sure that was a big part of her conditioning for this marriage. they have asked her if she knows what shes doing, if she really wants this, and they have told her whats expected, and she agreed. and she CANNOT CHANGE HER MIND NOW. at BEST he would divorce her; at worst (SHUDDER) i can just imagine his entire family (AND HERS!) coming down on her with a vengance, and counseling her, “talking her into it” and mentally breaking her, if not literally holding her down. jesus this is absolutely horrifying. and its been thoroughly couched as ROMANCE of the highest order, something all girls and women should want, we should all be so lucky etc. i want to scream.
I did read some report that Kate (now the Duchess of whatever), a few years ago in the time when she was dating Willy, was having a lot of trouble with the press following her about, and she could not get adequate protection because she was not officially royal family. Which is a bit stoopid, because an association like that should perhaps allow for umbrella protection under those circumstances.
But agree, the concept of the royal family, royal bloodlines and everything else is rather stupid. I do like to remind people that the ‘royal lineage’ is based on the most successful, ruthless and bloodthirsty warring types, and probably not something to be proud of.
“Hey, my ancestors loved to go around killing off peeps who disagreed with them, or ones that stood in the way of land acquisition, cool huh?!”
Very true. Consent really does not mean jackshit, particularly in this situation.
I think that not producing an heir may still be grounds for divorce too (in the royal line). Lets throw around a hypothetical here. What if, say next year, she had to have a full hysterectomy for some reason, prior to giving birth to any child. Would this ‘love story’ really pan out? Would he, actually honor the vows of “in sickness or in health”? My guess is big no. And also that she would have had fertility check ups. A very conditional love story.
Did ya’ll see this article: http://www.counterpunch.org/dines04262011.html Gail Dines ones again nails some major points.
Yes, “richest welfare family in the world”, zmog, yes!
ok re the bubbles, thanks for the feedback! it was intended to be read kate first, then william. to me, when kates bubble is read first, she is stating a stone-cold fact; and he is telling her yes, but it doesnt matter. everyone knows you are right, and yet “right” will not carry the day here. “i own you” regardless of the obvious fact that you are right. this institution is the antithesis of what you are saying, and the institution is what carries the day here; the institution trumps all. also, he gets the last word; his word is the final word.
interestingly, when you read it as williams first, then kates, the meaning is very different. to me, this is william stating his position in a threatening way, like out of the blue a very cold and threatening statement, and kate is resisting. she gets the last word, so you continue to consider what she has said, as if it might change something. thats definitely NOT how it was intended, because thats clearly not true. nothing she could ever say will change anything here. its DONE, its set in stone now.
anyone? regardless of which direction you read it, was your interpretation similar to either of mine?
I would agree with the interpretation of the reading order.
Anyway, you have at least learn a ‘trick of the trade’ as far as putting the message across in the desired order. Easiest way would have been to get a picture of them with her on screen-left!
Yes, FCM that’s exactly it. Read him first and it’s menacing.
i dont know why some people read it as intended though? was it just luck? hmm. i need a graphic artist on stoff. yes thats stoff.
ok look again, i reversed it, and put one on top of the other. does everyone read it with kates bubble first, on the bottom one? and for the ones who read kates bubble first on the top one, do you read her bubble first no matter what? this is really interesting!
Left to right every time. I am all about systematic.
ok i fixed it. its now left-to-right. thanks for playing!
confirming what has already been confirmed: this is the way you meant it and i did read the other one the way you describe, as kate having the last word.
so the one that’s up now is stone-cold reality and the first one was radical feminist commentary. interesting how those two graphics can be used that way just by changing the order we read them.
thanks noan! you have convinced me to put them both up now, so people can read them both, and see for themselves. it is really fascinating isnt it! and unexpected. good stuff.
good call to have both!
i would even say that reading williams first, and letting kate have the last word is fun-fem commentary, not radfem. wouldnt you? kate is never going to have the last word here, she is not empowered, in any way. her resistance is meaningless, its not heard or considered at all. the stone-cold truth of these situations *is* the radfem commentary, isnt it? what say you?
That wedding really invoked some emotion. You know how some women get all teary at weddings? Ha! I don’t think those are tears of joy, I think it’s grief.
I’ve thought a lot about that concept of how Kate can never win. I think part of our fascination with Princess Diana is that she almost won. We got to watch her get away, to escape, to blossom into her own person. Naturally, just like in the movies, anytime a woman comes close to doing that she goes and dies in a tragic accident. Bah humbug.
I do hope Kate and Will rock the boat, break some rules. I hope that Will remembers his mother and that Kate finds a way to make her role an empowering one.
well ive never thought about it before, or seen it with such radical eyes, but yes: the only emotion i felt at watching this wedding was grief. it was overwhelming. maybe the best possible outcome is that the prince finds a mistress, and leaves her the hell alone. diana got lucky that way i guess, if you can call it that? i wonder if she saw it that way?
I’ve mentioned before (at the risk of destroying my radfem credentials) that I am married. (long story, I’m working on my life)
But holy fuck, this girl does not know what she has let herself in for.
There is no way on earth she’ll be allowed to change her mind on whether to have kids or not.
She’ll be living in her in-law’s property!
I’ve watched her deferential body language when she appears with him. The brainwashing starts here. Kate is a sweet, innocent woman, but even in your average marriage it’s difficult for a wife to withstand the daily assaults on your psyche from the people around you that support marriage as an institution. Women are trained to believe the onus is on them to “make the marriage work”. THey have to figure out what their husband likes in bed, keep him interested.
ANd if she thinks William is going to be the FIRST prince in history not to commit adultery then she may be in for a surprise. He loves her now, yes, but marriage will spoil all that. No man is that important that he has the right to a wife AND a mistress
…If a woman MUST get married, the best damage limitation strategy is to *never* *marry* *up* forgodsake.
My own mother-in-law believes I’ve married up, when if anyone’s measuring it, it’s the other way round. God it was hell in the beginning until she realised I had nothing to lose by walking away.
My final word on marriage: the ability to walk away is the only power a woman truly has in a marriage. Take that away (and in Kate’s case it’s basically non-existent) and you’re fucked.
just my opinion on the subject cherryblossom, but your credibility does not suffer if you are married. online radical feminism is in the work, IMO. many of us made “choices” before we became radical that either cannot be undone, or dont need to be undone yet, or at all. the work continues. from what i can tell, its more of a problem IRL if you want to bring your nigel into a FAAB only space for example, or even to a party where there are women who want to spend time only with other women. online i think it matters less; just keep writing. if someone has a problem with it, they dont have to read it.
i agree that a woman needs to be able to walk away, and not just from a marriage but from any het partnership. there is NO WAY i would have been able to remove PIV from my life if i couldnt afford to either walk away if he continued to demand it, or if i couldnt afford to have him leave, if he couldnt handle it. i was clear about that in the beginning, and i am clear about it now. this must be the way it is, and it must be the way it stays. i fear for kates sanity, and i fear for her safety if she ever wakes up to any of this. its so horrible! poor kate. i wonder if her family tried at all to talk her out of this, if they tried to tell her that she was walking into the lions den, and how her life would be destroyed? or were they only too happy to pimp her out to the royals, to provide for all of their futures and get a little notoriety along the way? if she had one person in her life that could tell her any of this, i would be surprised. at best, someone probably asked her if she knew what she was doing, but how could she really? its all so unbelievable.
FCM, no, her family would not have talked her out of it, nor explained the true realities, they are social climbers willing to pimp out the body and soul of their daughter to obtain their goals.
I do admire women who manage to LIVE radical feminism, although to be fair I’ve only just woken up from the deep foggy sleep that is the mainstream worldview.
Yes, it’s absolutely vital that a woman does not support her partner at the expense of women (by allowing him to invade FAAB spaces).
Interestingly, in Asia, there is less cognitive dissonance surrounding marriage. Your average Japanese women will tell you marriage is shit, but because they don’t have the long history of feminist thought that we women from Anglo cultures have, they’re not yet ready to see a way out. They accept it as their lot and make the best of it.
Having said that, there *is* a silent revolution going on. THe Japanese are not the street-marching type, but the fertility rate in Japan is the *lowest* *in* *the* *world* !. Japanese women are refusing to have children, and a lot of them are refusing to get married. THis has been a trend going on for 30 years or more. It’s very common to find lots of childless married couples, or single women living at home at the age of 40+, or divorced women, ALL without children. Very interesting. The government is panicking and gives mothers quite a lot of money for having children. It’s just a band-aid, though. What women here need is real political power.
There is something refreshing about this realistic view of marriage. Theyre not in denial. But there isn’t much emphasis on female loyalty and friendships and loyalty , and *this* is their undoing in my opinion.
Kate Millet’s Sexual POlitics analyses Western notions of romance very well, and how all the poetry and professions of undying love are a cheap trick on men’s part, because beautiful words and sentiments do *nothing* to change the power dynamic within marriage.
If you really loved women, your own woman included, you would never be happy to live in a world where she was so disenfranchised economically, politically and culturally, would you?
Of course this is what it was all about, but check out just a handful of headlines:
“Royal Wedding: Will William and Kate Produce an Heir Quickly”
“Kate readies for royal life with heir in mind”
“Kate under heir pressure”
Most of the articles pass on what is surely a thinly veiled threat coming from the monarchy that both Chuck and Willy were born within a year of their parents’ marriages.
And a here’s a lovely tweet made during the wedding (by a woman, riding herd on another broodmare, as is her role in life):
‘Kate Middleton – those are not heir-bearing hips are they? Unfeasibly narrow.’
Yep Noan, FCM and I speculated above that there were probably pre-nupt fertility tests on her. 😦
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